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Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

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Texaskiter
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Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby Texaskiter » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:27 pm

Had a chance to test both of these set ups together yesterday unfortunately in flat water but may have helped with fewer variables. Nicely powered on a 9M kite.

Moses 633 wing, 483 stab, 101 Mast, KS 37" Pocket Board
Armstrong 800 wing, standard Stab (0' shim), TC60 fuse, 85 Mast, KS 37" Pocket

First let me say both set ups are very nice and starkly different. The shorter fuselage made for much sharper turning and carving on the Armstrong. More on that in a sec. The 633 goes on plane a bit quicker and more smoothly due to the larger, longer set up. The 633 rides more stable in general. It feels much more stable on foot switch transitions. It feels a little stiffer in the turns and I was more comfortable riding the 633 at the top end of its speed range. But this also could have been because of the longer mast. The stall speed (speed at which the wing drops you off plane) is slightly less (speed) on the 633 but I was very impressed with how slow I could ride the 800 and remain on plane.

The 800 was a joy to ride. For me it was more fun in the sense that it is much more reactive, loose, and playful. It dares you to crank turns and I was amazed at how smoothly it rolls into turns, and how tight you can crank it. I messed up on a few 360s where I got stuck half way into the rotation and was able to pirouette the wing in place to complete my rotation and come out of it. This wing has VERY good lift for its size. But it took me a little time to dial it in. The shorter fuse makes you over compensate on your starts vs the 633 so I found myself "porpoising" it in an effort to see how quickly I could get on plane. Once I dialed that in I could get on plane very quickly for the size of the wing. The build quality on the Armstrong is the best in the industry. It feels bomb proof and is extremely light (lighter than the 633 set up but to be fair, the 633 set up is also bigger). I hear the Armstrong chews up white water turbulence. I look forward to testing that in the surf soon.

In summary, the 633 is just easy, stable, and fun. Inspires confidence. I don't think there is a better set up out there to learn on and progress quickly. It is the "long-board" and the 800 is the "short board" in surfing terms. I am a more advanced rider so I naturally gravitated to the 800 due to its playfulness and versatility. Next time out I will try the Armstrong 1200 wing and share my feedback. This will probably be a closer comparison to the 633 but wanted to get these thoughts out while it was fresh on my mind. I hope you find this helpful.
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Re: Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby slowboat » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:04 pm

Well written. Consistent with my take on these wings. Look forward to your comments on the 1200

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Re: Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby Frankieboy » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:39 pm

there is a big difference riding a 100 mast and a 85cm mast in terms of reactivity !

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Re: Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby FLandOBX » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:33 pm

Very good review, Texaskiter. Thanks for posting.

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Re: Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby tomtom » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:30 pm

Great review. Many thanks.

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Re: Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby Texaskiter » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:36 pm

Frankieboy wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:39 pm
there is a big difference riding a 100 mast and a 85cm mast in terms of reactivity !
This is very true and a great point, Frankieboy. So please disregard my comments about the 633 being stiffer. So not a perfect comparison. That said, I was able to ride the 1200 yesterday on the exact same set up as the 800 mentioned in my opening. The 1200 has all the same characteristics as the 800 but the stall out and start speed is much lower. And lower than the 633. The 1200 (with the neutral shim) requires more front foot pressure at speed (more than 800 and 633). Notwithstanding the shorter mast, the pitch, yaw, and roll of the 1200 vs the 633 is more prevalent. So in that regard, the 633 feels more "stable" and it is faster than the 1200. One feeling that came to mind riding the 1200 is that I was riding (balancing) on top of a ball where the 633 feels more "locked in". With the 1200, the turns are tight and carvey and should be a blast in the surf. You can't tell you are on such a large wing. I would not call the 1200 with the short fuse a beginner's set up because of all the afore mentioned. One weird thing I noticed after a fall was that the board remained on its side with the wing floating out of the water. So I actually had to body drag upwind to the board. I am going to try the 1200 with the 1 degree shim to see if that balances the ride a little more. Hope you all find this helpful. I would be interested in other people's experiences.
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Re: Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby Frankieboy » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:46 pm

Thanks Texasrider for the review.

How do the stabs compare in size?

Untill now I rode Ketos 1200 wing and changed to the smallest satb available. It dramatically changed the behaviour of the foil make much tider turns and much more playfull. With a bigger stab (karver) the foil is much more stable.
I just bought Moses 633, didn't try it yet but to me the stab (450) looks too big. I don't think there is a smaller stab available (at least surf fuselage compatible...).

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Re: Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby Texaskiter » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:11 pm

Frankieboy wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:46 pm
Thanks Texasrider for the review.

How do the stabs compare in size?

Untill now I rode Ketos 1200 wing and changed to the smallest satb available. It dramatically changed the behaviour of the foil make much tider turns and much more playfull. With a bigger stab (karver) the foil is much more stable.
I just bought Moses 633, didn't try it yet but to me the stab (450) looks too big. I don't think there is a smaller stab available (at least surf fuselage compatible...).
The 633 fuse is almost 11.5 cm longer than the Armstrong (60cm). Armstrong offers a 70cm too. I do think the fuse size difference is probably creating the biggest contrast between the two set ups. And of course, the difference in mast length.

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Re: Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby DAnderson » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:31 pm

Frankieboy wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:46 pm
to me the stab (450) looks too big. I don't think there is a smaller stab available (at least surf fuselage compatible...).
I believe the smaller kite stabs are compatible w/ the surf fuse. I experimented a while back w/ the 330 & 420 on the older 749? surf fuse

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Re: Moses 633 vs Armstrong review

Postby grigorib » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:26 pm

450 is the biggest stabilizer. 483 is smaller but just as thick. Then you have race stabilizers 425/421/420 which are thin but still larger than kite freeride stabilizers, closing the list with 325 and finally 330 as the smallest. You might be able to find some 2016-2017 race stabilizers (380/345/342) which appeared even smaller but I have no data on their actual specs


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