Single strut kite wind speed?

[dave1986]

It's clear that single strut kites are more effective in light winds compared with kites with 3+ strut. However, as the wind increases the befefits of light weight single strut kites begin to deminish.

I'm interested to hear people's opinions about what wind speed they would consider the benefits of single strut kites to be very close to 3-strut for use with hydrofoil? The background to my question is that i own a 12m Naish Boxer (single strut), and 6m/9m Naish Pivots. I expect that the 12m Boxer will become difficult to handle on the hydrofoil at around 15+mph... do people think i'll get much benefit from a 8/9m Naish Boxer single strut kite at 15+mph, or will the 3-strut 9m Naish Pivot perform very similarly to a single strut kite at that wind speed?
(Note: I appreciate that the Boxer and Pivot are quite different kites, so it's difficult to compare them. So my question is more relevant if we were comparing single strut and 3 strut kites of a similar design)

[Si_B]

Above 15mph pretty much anything will fly. I don’t know much about Boxer kites, but if they have plenty of depower on the bar and a bit of drift, you’ll be good to go. I had a 9m Enduro which on either the freestyle or wave setting was amazing on the foil. Reasonably light 3 strut kite that turned really quick.

Now have 14m and 10m Alpha as the single struts work so well, but I learnt on a 9 and 12m Rally which pull like a train and not the lightest. Still had fun though.

Simon

[grigorib]

It depends on kite design. If you make single strut kite and make a huge fat LE to compensate for lack of rigidity - that’s wrong. If single strut is not much lighter than 3+ strut - why bother?
If single strut kite weigh nothing - I’d take another extra size onto a trip just in case. Also if single strut doesn’t fly as good as 3+ strut - meh.

Lots of variables here.

[Cefirmeza]

12m single strut have any advantage over same kite but 10m during lulls to stay up or hangs equal but just pulls more?

[Peter_Frank]

It's clear that single strut kites are more effective in light winds compared with kites with 3+ strut. However, as the wind increases the befefits of light weight single strut kites begin to deminish.

I'm interested to hear people's opinions about what wind speed they would consider the benefits of single strut kites to be very close to 3-strut for use with hydrofoil? The background to my question is that i own a 12m Naish Boxer (single strut), and 6m/9m Naish Pivots. I expect that the 12m Boxer will become difficult to handle on the hydrofoil at around 15+mph... do people think i'll get much benefit from a 8/9m Naish Boxer single strut kite at 15+mph, or will the 3-strut 9m Naish Pivot perform very similarly to a single strut kite at that wind speed?
(Note: I appreciate that the Boxer and Pivot are quite different kites, so it's difficult to compare them. So my question is more relevant if we were comparing single strut and 3 strut kites of a similar design)

Dave, would be nice if you used knots instead of mph, as mph is a unit almost unknown worldwide

15 mph is 13 knots (or 6.7 m/s)

IMO you will gain absolutely nothing from single strut in that much wind, so go with your Pivot will probably work just dandy, and I am 100 % sure it will NOT be because of 3 struts, if it does not

In light winds single strut or no strut kites are not more effective in light wind whatsoever - they just hang (and relaunch) much better, and this is key.
But when riding, no difference really, same power same everything.

You ride with quite big kites, maybe you like to jump, or are above average weight?

With the "typical" bigger freeride and surf wings of today, a 7 or 8 m2 is fine in +13 knots.

And if still learning, indeed a tad bigger kite is beneficial yes.

I would not waste money on "less strut" kites in that much wind.

When above 10 knots EVERYTHING will work

Only when around and lower than 10 knots, you need lighter or superlight kites.

Peter

[jumptheshark]

As usual, I'll say the opposite to Peter!

Just because anything will fly well above 13 knots doesn't make it the right tool for the job.

Foiling is its own thing. IF you really get into it, there absolutely is benefit to having a lighter kite all the way down through the sizes.

On foil, you are on those really small kites in less wind than you would be on surface boards, so they have to deal with far more drastic losses of apparent wind.

Your on a 7m under 15 knots and sizing down from 5m once it gets over 20 knots. Single strut absolutely deals with the low end, holes and drift better than a three strutter in such extreme low wind per kite size.

Once you get down below 5m, there is so little canopy to support that for foiling I don't think more than a single strut is needed at all.

If you get a pivot, its a compromise to the low end foiling aspect of the kite, If you get a boxer its a compromise on the upper end of twintip riding.

[Peter_Frank]

I know this is a bees nest, this topic, as some will swear to the lightest possible kites all the way down to the smallest.

Others dont mind, no difference, when smaller than 9 m2 (which also IMO is the turning point for average weights)

Kites like the Naish Slash or Pivot, great allround kites and for waves, good drift, works just awesome in the smaller sizes for kitefoiling, actually quite well in the big ones too, because of perfect balance.

Peter

[Peert]

This time I disagree with Peter. I agree with Jumpthefish.

Single strut above 10 knots still has considerable advantages.
1. The lighter the kite the quicker it turns. (inertia)
2. The drift when turning in the direction of the kite is just better. (inertia and balance of the kite.
3. It packs smaller (also above 10 knots) and lighter (airline luggage)
4. Relaunch is quicker. This particularly true in 10-20 knots of wind. who cares? Well, the one that finds themselves in a choppy surfzone with the kite down.
5. Keeping a 3 strut in the air at 10 - 13 knots is just way less forgiving in the hands of your daughters that are practising... A single strut 9 meter allowes them to have something that works but does not get overpowered that quickly.
6. Sheeting out a single strut results in a luffing canopy and in my experience functions way better in dumping power than a still straight 3 strut kites canopy. The luffing slows down foreward motion and thus the effect of apparent wind.

Yes 3 struts can work as well below 15 knots. But the best tool it is not...

[Frankieboy]

I used Boxer 10 and 8 for foiling only. Use Boxer 12 and Slash 9/7/5 for kiting (surf)

I think Boxer 10m is the biggest you need as inflatable kite. If you need more power, then go for a foil kite. And I am a heavy guy...
I foiled slash kites 9/7 but had so much fun with the Boxer 10 I bought an 8 just to foil till 20 knots

The thing is we foil underpowered and a light kite makes a huge difference for the 6 reasons mentioned above.

That is why I ended up buying a full quiver of Clouds only for foiling (as a lot of people do by the way) and this is thebest inflatable kite for foiling IMO

But indeed anything will do the job above xx knots.... if you only expect it to do the job...

[airsail]

I agree with Frankieboy, I love my clouds too, but, here we sometimes play race, up around a mark and back again. I got smashed constantly by guys on 3 and 5 struts as they could point higher and hold more power than single and no strut kites.
So in regards to kites for foiling, really depends what your into to what suits. I now own an Ozone Edge for those play race days, bloody heavy but hauls arse upwind.
Pivots will work well for this use.