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Strutless LEI vs foil

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Pemba
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Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby Pemba » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:01 pm

I’ve recently started hydrofoiling. My kiting days are now limited by my kite falling in low wind. Best I can do is 5 strut LEI (Eleveight FS 12 m), Moses 550 and “pocket” board. So I am considering buying either a strutless or single strut LEI like BRM Cloud, Gong strutless etc, or a foil such as probably Flysurfer Soul or Kitech FRS, possibly UL. Waves are not really an issue where I am. I’m app 80 kg. How would you rate strutless/single strut LEI vs foil in terms of absolute light wind use and in terms of freeriding on flatwater/chop with twintip ? Which size would make most sense ? Does it make more sense to just look for a bigger foil ? I guess this is likely to happen at some point anyway but I'm still enjoying and on a good learning curve on this one.

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Re: Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby jyka » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:54 pm

I have both(gong strutless 12m and chrono v2 13m). Foil kite is better when the wind is very low because it will stay in the sky better.
When the wind is stronger (4.5 m/s) I'll choose LEI for foiling, because it turns faster.
Foil kite is better for twintip when the wind gets stronger. If you're traveling and can pack only one kite/less kites. Strutless kite wind range is quite small.
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Re: Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby Jyoder » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:47 pm

I’ve done both with hydrofoil. I like 9 and 11m race foil kites with hydrofoil better than big strutless LEI with hydrofoil in light wind. I have no waves, and so I tend to ride fast and pretend I’m racing. 9 and 11m foil kites are plenty nimble enough. I often ride in one spot, tacking and jibing every 15-30 seconds.

My old 17m Cloud was nice in its simplicity but without waves or much water texture, the foil kites are more fun and magical going 2-3x wind speed on glassy water.

But, if you are just learning to foil, I recommend sticking with LEI until you can do transitions well in light wind.
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Re: Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby neilhapgood » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:08 pm

I went for a 12m Soul after a one strut 12m LEI and haven't looked back, I find it less stressful not having to worry about it dropping out the sky, especially when walking into the water in small waves that can knock you a foot or two under the kite and cause an LEI to drop .

Also my transitions are pretty sketchy so if its really light I just drop into the water and turn the board around and go again which with an LEI I ran the risk of dropping it as I got the board organised but the soul sits up there fairly happily. Also very smooth to fly
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Re: Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby hongchew » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:19 pm

Jyoder wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:47 pm
I’ve done both with hydrofoil. I like 9 and 11m race foil kites with hydrofoil better than big strutless LEI with hydrofoil in light wind. I have no waves, and so I tend to ride fast and pretend I’m racing. 9 and 11m foil kites are plenty nimble enough. I often ride in one spot, tacking and jibing every 15-30 seconds.

My old 17m Cloud was nice in its simplicity but without waves or much water texture, the foil kites are more fun and magical going 2-3x wind speed on glassy water.

But, if you are just learning to foil, I recommend sticking with LEI until you can do transitions well in light wind.
What's light wind to your 11m?

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Re: Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby tomtom » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:28 pm

The question is very generic like what is better car SUV or race car. There are better or worse examples of both and both have advantages and issues. Only thing about strutless better than struted is weight. Struts on kites are not for fun they are as structural support which define wing profile. Only in light wing loading f.e. freeride hydrofoil you can go away with strutless. Foil kite as long as wing is loaded have very stiff and very defined profile because is defined by dense bridal. If wing isnt loaded i.e in turbulent wind or slacked lines there isnt much to hold kite in shape which can lead to funny behavior like bow tie. Experienced riders knows and keep wing loaded. Ultimate low end is for sure foil kite domain. Strutless LEI can be more userfriendly but lower performing. One struter are often good compromise between multistruter and strutless. I will choose foil with clean wind and compatible launch site and struless / one strut with turbulent wind or sketchy launch site.
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Re: Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby Cefirmeza » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:38 pm

tomtom wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:28 pm
The question is very generic like what is better car SUV or race car. There are better or worse examples of both and both have advantages and issues. Only thing about strutless better than struted is weight. Struts on kites are not for fun they are as structural support which define wing profile. Only in light wing loading f.e. freeride hydrofoil you can go away with strutless. Foil kite as long as wing is loaded have very stiff and very defined profile because is defined by dense bridal. If wing isnt loaded i.e in turbulent wind or slacked lines there isnt much to hold kite in shape which can lead to funny behavior like bow tie. Experienced riders knows and keep wing loaded. Ultimate low end is for sure foil kite domain. Strutless LEI can be more userfriendly but lower performing. One struter are often good compromise between multistruter and strutless. I will choose foil with clean wind and compatible launch site and struless / one strut with turbulent wind or sketchy launch site.
What would you pick on a lightwind lake spot with gusts and lulls?

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Re: Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby Jyoder » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:56 pm


What's light wind to your 11m?
11m Diablo v1 with 15m lines with medium/small hydrofoil wing: no white caps but some texture on water (8 knots maybe). With 20m lines, 1500cm2 hydrofoil wing, glassy water, hardly any wind feeling at surface (6-7knots maybe).

I’m 65kg, 39inch x 20inch low volume board.

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Re: Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby bigtone667 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:07 pm

Cefirmeza wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:38 pm
tomtom wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:28 pm
The question is very generic like what is better car SUV or race car. There are better or worse examples of both and both have advantages and issues. Only thing about strutless better than struted is weight. Struts on kites are not for fun they are as structural support which define wing profile. Only in light wing loading f.e. freeride hydrofoil you can go away with strutless. Foil kite as long as wing is loaded have very stiff and very defined profile because is defined by dense bridal. If wing isnt loaded i.e in turbulent wind or slacked lines there isnt much to hold kite in shape which can lead to funny behavior like bow tie. Experienced riders knows and keep wing loaded. Ultimate low end is for sure foil kite domain. Strutless LEI can be more userfriendly but lower performing. One struter are often good compromise between multistruter and strutless. I will choose foil with clean wind and compatible launch site and struless / one strut with turbulent wind or sketchy launch site.
What would you pick on a lightwind lake spot with gusts and lulls?
A wing surfer.

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Re: Strutless LEI vs foil

Postby tomtom » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:08 pm

Cefirmeza wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:38 pm
tomtom wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:28 pm
The question is very generic like what is better car SUV or race car. There are better or worse examples of both and both have advantages and issues. Only thing about strutless better than struted is weight. Struts on kites are not for fun they are as structural support which define wing profile. Only in light wing loading f.e. freeride hydrofoil you can go away with strutless. Foil kite as long as wing is loaded have very stiff and very defined profile because is defined by dense bridal. If wing isnt loaded i.e in turbulent wind or slacked lines there isnt much to hold kite in shape which can lead to funny behavior like bow tie. Experienced riders knows and keep wing loaded. Ultimate low end is for sure foil kite domain. Strutless LEI can be more userfriendly but lower performing. One struter are often good compromise between multistruter and strutless. I will choose foil with clean wind and compatible launch site and struless / one strut with turbulent wind or sketchy launch site.
What would you pick on a lightwind lake spot with gusts and lulls?
As i say it depends from wind characteristic. If heavy turbulent rotors from obstacles are present then ozone alpha. If not medium aspect foil. Soul, frs, hyperlink. I like frs most. This is for light wind. Medium to strong winds i like peak 4.
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