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Considering a switch to foil kites

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Tony
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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby Tony » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:16 pm

I've been slowly switching over ... really liking the CA Firefly, similar to the Peak4 but with a ram-air leading edge ... relaunch!
These are super fast and responsive, medium aspect kites. I like them better than LEI's in higher winds, don't get the power spike you do with LEI's.
Landing with an assist is every bit as easy if not easier, grab the middle of the leading edge and the kite collapses, no drama.
Self landing is a bit tougher in strong winds but also with LEI's.
Personally I see and advantage riding these kites in gusty conditions.
The more I ride them the more unhappy I am riding my LEI's.
I'm not sure they replace 2 LEI kites though, maybe as I get more proficient with them, right now I'd say 2 of them replace 3 lei's.
Pros and cons to both, just depends what your priorities are and what compromises you're willing to make.
Try to find a demo.
Tony

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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby kiteykitekite » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:11 am

There has been so much misinformation on foil kites, some still continues in this thread :roll:

Needless to say

Yes they do relaunch, in fact in many ways better than a LEI.

They have tremendous range.

They are incredibly durable.

They are the cheapest kite to buy and own. They last so long.



That kite in that size costs $169 new, starts at $89.

You can ride waves, race, jump do anything with foil kites. Lots of models to choose from.

They are the best kites for light wind.

They have the fastest setup and are the most versatile at self landing and launching.

They are extremely safe, flag very well and basically do not death loop.

Are foil kites worth trying? Most definitely. Are they different, yes. Do you need to learn new skills, yes. Do you need to do things different, yes. Are they massively different, no.

Do they have negatives, yes.

Do they have benefits, yes.
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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby Bille » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:49 am

@ kiteykitekite

Great post !!! :thumb:

Bille

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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby edt » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:59 am

I have a pansh gensis. $200. Flysurfer Soul is about $2000.

is the flysurfer soul actually ten times better than the pansh?

Yes.

At the price of a pansh tho it's like buying a pair of sunglasses so no harm buying a few.

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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby downunder » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:58 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:28 pm
I agree with most comments here, ups and downs of both so depends on what you personally prefer.

But indeed it CAN replace two LEI kites, yes.

Only comment I strongly disagree with, is saying a LEI can loop you up better.
This is so not true - if you loop a foil kite, does not matter if a small 8 m2, or a 15 m2, you will get looooooads of powerspike.
This is the reason why it can go so low in windstrength, even if not that big.
.
.

8) Peter
I think we are forgetting one important thing: 8m is used in stronger wind. In 12kn 8m cannot be looped fast enough to pull on the strapless board. Plus, the rider is holding a board with one hand, at least when learning, which makes it really difficult to loop.

In 12kn an 10 or 12m foil CAN be looped, but more often will heli-loop with no power. When doing that, it will drop back in the wind window resulting in slack lines and taking forever to move to zenith. Or, we can sometimes move it to the edge of the window, which again takes forever to climb back. All this takes a huge time when fighting a HF as well. And a HF will not wait for us.

I can loop ANY foil standing on the beach with absolutely no power spike in light wind. It won't move me even slightly. It totally depends how is looped. "Looping" a kite through the complete wind window is not a loop in my books ;)

With an LEI, a loop is a loop. There is no heli-loop. This needs to be said over and over: there is no HELI-LOOP with LEI.

The faster we can loop it, the more nimble the kite is through the wind window, the easier is to water start and keep it in the air luls. Sure, a small foil might work like that, but how small? ;)

And heli-loop is the same on small foil. It might take years to master flying the foil...

RE fabric and waterproofing, if the spare kit has exactly the same fabric as on the kite, the difference is huge. Only the new owners can check this, I can't.

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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby cglazier » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:19 am

My experience is consistent with what Peter posted.
In light wind (below 10 knots) I always loop my 12m Soul foil kite to get started. It gives me a nice surge of power to get up on my board and foil. Sometimes I have to do two or even three loops. I also downloop with almost every jibe and occasionally when I tack. Both my 8m and 12m Soul foil kites are easy to loop (and my old Chrono foil kite was also easy to loop). The only time I avoid looping is in stronger winds where a loop would generate too much power.

:wink: CG

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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby downunder » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:15 am

Which took you years to master ;)

But, if it takes two or even three loops that means the first loop was not enough. So let's discuss a heli-loop.

Does a heli-loop produces a pull? So how many times we did a heli-loop before we mastered a 'loop'? This is all interesting for a new buyer with no experience.


About the rigging up the Soul, I actually find it frustrating when packing up, it takes way more time to pack up than with LEI. One more myth about how fast rigging/packing is.

Yet, no one talks about it, because hey, that is how it is. Well, I just said, I do not like it. I can live with it tho...

A myth is still a myth. And the biggest myth, as kiteykitekite posted, is a fun/price ratio.

My last post tho. Looks like we forgot the time when learning to fly foils ;)

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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby drsurf » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:55 am

downunder I think you're the one with problems with foil kites. It doesn't appear other foil kite users have the same experience.

However it's your last post which is good :)
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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby downunder » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:12 am

Rotho Dr Surf

You do sell Flysurfer? Good one...So now you'll pimp us a Peak just like you did the soul a year ago. A pimp is always a pimp mate, you should know that.

Let me know when the internal panels blow and how much will cost to repair. But wait, that something a new buyer should not know. God forbid you would tell THAT to a customer.

Or that a fast rigging/packup is a myth with bigger Souls. C'mon, your assumption is that only ME have problems. And the assumption is a mother of all fu.ups...

Just in the last few weeks a number of Souls changed hands in Perth. At least 3. Why don't u ask them since I'm the only one having issues?

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Re: Considering a switch to foil kites

Postby leeuwen » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:47 am

Since no one mentioned it yet:

If you can wait a few months I would seriously consider looking at the Aluula kites that will be here soon.
Depending on what characteristics you are looking for that a foil kite provides over a tube kite this might change the equation / be a good fit as well.
e.g. shedding the weight from a tube kite helps a lot in drift and low wind situations.
Have a test run with both a foil and the Aluula kite and see what you will like most.
They are probably in the same price range. (if you look at something like a new Soul)


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