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foiling is surfing

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slowboat
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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby slowboat » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:31 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:22 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:49 pm
Why only kitefoil?

Even better for wingfoil :thumb:

8) Peter
Jury's still out on the wingfoil's true light wind potential. So far, winging is taking more wind than expected. Which means it is only doable when the kiting is decent too.

I am hopeful that with a 7m wing and gaining competency, that 10kt will be doable -- and if so, then it uses the wind in conditions that really aren't very fun for kiting (at least for me, you can kitefoil in 10kts, but riding waves gets pretty iffy). Until then, winging eats kiting's lunch....you don't get both, have to decide. 8) :wink: :cool2:

My spring project is to get competent at winging ... and i am willing to sacrifice some flat water kiting if it means being ready to chase wing-surf potential next Fall.
Comparing the Wing and Kite is a false comparison. The Wing is a foil SURFING tool just like the paddle (SUP foil surfing) and one's arms (Prone foil surfing). Even though kitesurfing is called "kitesurfing", it is not really surfing. OK, blast away.
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kiteykitekite
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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby kiteykitekite » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:47 pm

The problem with winging is you need an expensive board and wing and then only big hydrofoils. It is more something for people who don't kite I think. Kiting is much cheaper and has more options. Having the wing shoved in your face doesn't look nice either but then lines are not the nicest things either.

juandesooka
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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby juandesooka » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:54 pm

slowboat wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:31 pm
Comparing the Wing and Kite is a false comparison. The Wing is a foil SURFING tool just like the paddle (SUP foil surfing) and one's arms (Prone foil surfing). Even though kitesurfing is called "kitesurfing", it is not really surfing. OK, blast away.
The semantics are awesome, I bet me and you could argue about this over a beer, then order another and just argue the other position for kicks. Mostly agree, but could also just disagree to kill some time. :lol:

Kiting in waves
Kitefoiling in waves
Surfing in waves
Surf foiling in waves
Sup foiling in waves
We're all just looking for the dopamine hit that turns the crank. Or if you're over the hill and spawned-out like me, just swimming in the eddies trying to find some fun before that last big flush. So....dowhatchalike, I won't judge, it's all good! :thumb:

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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby bragnouff » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:07 pm

Take a snow covered frozen lake, and a snowboard. A kite or a wing will allow you to carve turns on there, and emulate more or less the ride you'd get if you were on a real slope. Harnessing the wind allows us to snowboard on flat surfaces, or be flat water surfers. Let's embrace that and keep the stoke!

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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby longwhitecloud » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:22 pm

grigorib wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:11 pm
longwhitecloud wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:29 am
...there is good reason why you won't be able to find the footage - there is only so much yummy food to go around and sharing it online is out of the question.
Not about you longwhitecloud, but this just flashed how it sounds exactly as surfing culture is referred to - selfish and pricky. “GTFO my swamp” culture. It’s like eating birthday cake alone to brag about how you ate a birthday cake alone.
It's reality, you film at some of these spots and pimp it online, you cant expect to feel comfortable returning.
I wasnt alone and it is a shared consensus amongst the other riders.. it explains why you don't see the worlds best kite surfing waves on youtube. It is "respect the locals".

Surfed my whole life, kited for 20, seen it all. I would say surf culture isn't quite how it is perceived though, have seen so many upset riders get into situations because they simply don't have the ability to keep others around them safe and they take this home as "gtfo" of my swamp thing and end up hating on surf culture. It is nowhere near as bad as perceived by so many.

Imo you can surf with a foil, and with kite.

People I know say foiling isn't surfing because you are disconnected from the wave surface. I understand why they are saying.. all depends on your definition I guess. I think wing foiling will grow due to the freedom in fat empty waves and not kite to fall out of sky... expense will see non sponsored middle agers the prime candidates.

The pic in surfer mag of laird in 1998 was the first image of kiting I ever saw, clearly influenced me.

juandesooka
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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby juandesooka » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:17 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:22 pm
People I know say foiling isn't surfing because you are disconnected from the wave surface. I understand why they are saying.. all depends on your definition I guess.
Probably the same people who say boogie boarding isn't surfing because you aren't standing. Or SUP isn't surfing because you aren't laying down. Or that porpoises aren't surfing because they aren't on the surface. As in, surfing was invented in 1970 when someone chopped 3' off the log and called it a shortboard. :lol:
longwhitecloud wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:22 pm
I think wing foiling will grow due to the freedom in fat empty waves and not kite to fall out of sky... expense will see non sponsored middle agers the prime candidates.
DING DING, Hello Demographic.
longwhitecloud wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:22 pm
The pic in surfer mag of laird in 1998 was the first image of kiting I ever saw, clearly influenced me.
I missed that one, but his tow foil stuff later on blew my mind. Just as I was taking kite lessons, I saw someone doing it in France, a <holy crap> moment to realize you don't need to Laird or have a jetski. When I got home, an original carafino came up for sale, I jumped at it even before I learned to kite. And the rest is history! #nerdlife #loyaltothefoil etc :cool2:

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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby revhed » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:35 am

tomtom wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:49 pm
you need stiffness beyond current carbon setups for real wave riding.
lift carbon masts are not stiff enough for this.
I do see a carbon STRUT, but need to watch again, fourth time, to see if it is flown in these waves.
Could be as board with more mass provides wanted inertia, maybe they like this with their STRUTS as well?
Sure wish I was young and as gifted as waterman extreme Lard (HUGE respect :thumb: ) so could fly with!
But just watching brings much joy!
R H

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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby revhed » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:14 am

scottnorby wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:52 am
Just clarifying energy in swell is used to surf
Not a kite pulling
:thumb:
Agree fully, alas even a main topic on this very forum uses the wrong word for our sport!
KITEBOARDING NOT KITESURFING UNLESS DONE IN WAVES, and even then with little or no energy from a kite?
This has unfortunately become accepted, :roll: just as the completely incorrect word for the vertical compression element of our kiteboard hydrofoils. :angryfire:
Who would ever call the cord compression reinforcement of an L E I a MAST?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofoil
Description
The hydrofoil usually consists of a wing like structure mounted on struts below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-down_hydrofoil
Foil assembly - a long strut, usually around 3 feet long, connected to a fuselage carrying a front wing (for lift) and a rear wing (for stability)
http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/divisi ... istory.htm
The foil design was made from the classic "Ladder" type construction which has multiple struts coming down with multiple wings between them
https://foils.org/category/foils-struts/
Hydrofoil, Rudder, and Strut Design Issues
Design Criteria, Foils & Struts
At least one American company uses the correct term, always, bravo! https://www.deltahydrofoil.com/shopfoil ... late-mount
R H

kiteykitekite
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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby kiteykitekite » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:53 pm

The term I use is "surfkiting", goal is to use the kite as little as possible, slack lines are ideal with zero kite pull. It is borderline completely opposite to "wavekiting", which as far as I can work out is some form of flat water kiting done near waves. It is most hilarious to watch the turns done off the waves and strange positions, as if some how it is anything like surfing.

As to hydrofoiling being surfing, 250%. No other device can harness the energy of a wave or swell anywhere near as well as a hydrofoil. You can quite often drop the board and get close to the water easily. Barrels are a good example where the face is right next to you.

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Re: foiling is surfing

Postby OzBungy » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:57 am

You guys need to stop talking about surfing and kiting and all the rest and go and do some masturbating. It feels better and it is far more useful.

It doesn't matter what you call it. It is awesome.

PS. There's a fairly good look at the gear and a discussion at 4:00-4:40

Possibly the greatest piece of foiling wisdom is said at 4:40.


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