Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

shimming the foil question - moses

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
User avatar
Frankieboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 876
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:05 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 5 times

shimming the foil question - moses

Postby Frankieboy » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:48 pm

Hi Guys,

I am new to Moses and use the 633 on a 82cm mast with the surf fuselage and use a 450 stab (that I can also use for winging)
The problem is that it needs much too much front foot pressure. I will use a 330 also which is OK (did test it) but the 450 makes the balance different.
Si I need to "shim" it.

How do you best do that? Plastic stuff at the back screw of the stab OR at the back screw of the connection mast/fuselage????

Any experience ?

Thanks

Frank

rolfjoosten
Rare Poster
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:31 am
Local Beach: Christ Church
Favorite Beaches: Silver Rock Barbados - home
Style: Fun
Gear: Strapless Wave, Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby rolfjoosten » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:20 am

Use a bit of credit card at the back under the stabilizer cut to fit the fuselage. This reduces the front foot pressure slightly.
I guess you ride strapless, if not try this as well as it lets you place your feet further forward.

alowishus
Medium Poster
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:38 pm
Gear: ozone airush slingshot moses
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby alowishus » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:52 am

I've used a washer for the rear stab, and separately, a small piece of cut linoleum tile for the mast/fuselage connection.

Shimming the mast/fuselage "looks better" and is theoretically the best as you don't muck around with the foil as you are just shifting the weight forward.

You can apparently purchase custom made shims, but you could probably make them yourself if you have some time on your hands.

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm amd 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites - 9 +11mtr
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 126 times

Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby Foil » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:46 am

cheap quick and easy shim production method, works a treat.
a butter tub lid.
draw the profile around the rear of the fuse using a sharpie pen, cut out 3 shapes with normal scissors, quick cheap easy effective.
i found just one of these thin shims worked well on your 450/633 combination, maybe just one degree of tilt.
but the 450 for me had a few other disadvantages that made me change back to using the standard 483 stab.
pauline went mad at our butter tub lid going missing, where did that go?

a99
Frequent Poster
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:10 am
Favorite Beaches: Baltic sea
Gear: North, Liquid Force, Blade, Xenon laluz.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby a99 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:04 pm

Foil wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:46 am
cheap quick and easy shim production method, works a treat.
a butter tub lid.
draw the profile around the rear of the fuse using a sharpie pen, cut out 3 shapes with normal scissors, quick cheap easy effective.
i found just one of these thin shims worked well on your 450/633 combination, maybe just one degree of tilt.
but the 450 for me had a few other disadvantages that made me change back to using the standard 483 stab.
pauline went mad at our butter tub lid going missing, where did that go?
Can you upload the photo of your shim? not understand exactly from what material you made it. thanks.

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2292
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/105cm masts with 590/330 695/425 683s/450 679/483 wingsets, Tim's 36" woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $480, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, BROkite carbon board 140x44cm like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530

Moses 590/647/330 $740, Moses 633/749/483 $790, Moses 683s/749/483 $890, 75cm alu mast $200, 80cm alu mast $260
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 171 times
Been thanked: 213 times

Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby grigorib » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:40 pm

Use a washer between stabilizer and the fuselage to point stabilizer up.

450 stabilizer moves balance forward compared to 483
82cm mast positions whole fuselage forward by 30mm (it’s not tilted back)

Everyone getting those get ready to adjust your mast position on the board further back. I hope you can

alowishus
Medium Poster
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:38 pm
Gear: ozone airush slingshot moses
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby alowishus » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:07 pm

Foil wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:46 am
but the 450 for me had a few other disadvantages that made me change back to using the standard 483 stab.
Foil - Out of interest, what is your view of the 450 vs 483 stab? Why the 483 preference?

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm amd 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites - 9 +11mtr
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 126 times

Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby Foil » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:35 pm

alowishus wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:07 pm
Foil wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:46 am
but the 450 for me had a few other disadvantages that made me change back to using the standard 483 stab.
Foil - Out of interest, what is your view of the 450 vs 483 stab? Why the 483 preference?
what I found after 2 full 4-5 hour sessions using the 450 stab,
firstly I found it so much more responsive in the turns, being able to crank it round hard and fast, so much fun i thought, just could not believe how good it felt in the waves near the beach, carves and turns were mega fun, however during day one, I needed to explore why I was feeling unstable whilst loading up for a jump, even crashing out just before take off, I was thinking weed or turbulent water, I just could not get that quick burst of explosive speed anymore and then i noticed my speed across the open stretches of water was much slower and less stable, much less stable as I got near to max speed, again i thought it was the turbulence in the water, after a frustrating number of poor speed take offs when boosting which felt pathetic I came ashore and changed my rear wing back to the 483.
O joy was returned,
super stable at speed, even at the top end of mast length flying in line with the wave crests which I love at flag beach, and the acceleration before a jump was easily found and perfectly stable, so the downsides for me were no good and the wing has now been sold.but for a strapless rider who cares less for top speed or jumping then yes, it maybe a better wing choice, certainly much less chance of chipping the tips, much stronger and swept up off the ground

alowishus
Medium Poster
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:38 pm
Gear: ozone airush slingshot moses
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby alowishus » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:50 am

Foil wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:35 pm
alowishus wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:07 pm
Foil wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:46 am
but the 450 for me had a few other disadvantages that made me change back to using the standard 483 stab.
Foil - Out of interest, what is your view of the 450 vs 483 stab? Why the 483 preference?
what I found after 2 full 4-5 hour sessions using the 450 stab,
firstly I found it so much more responsive in the turns, being able to crank it round hard and fast, so much fun i thought, just could not believe how good it felt in the waves near the beach, carves and turns were mega fun, however during day one, I needed to explore why I was feeling unstable whilst loading up for a jump, even crashing out just before take off, I was thinking weed or turbulent water, I just could not get that quick burst of explosive speed anymore and then i noticed my speed across the open stretches of water was much slower and less stable, much less stable as I got near to max speed, again i thought it was the turbulence in the water, after a frustrating number of poor speed take offs when boosting which felt pathetic I came ashore and changed my rear wing back to the 483.
O joy was returned,
super stable at speed, even at the top end of mast length flying in line with the wave crests which I love at flag beach, and the acceleration before a jump was easily found and perfectly stable, so the downsides for me were no good and the wing has now been sold.but for a strapless rider who cares less for top speed or jumping then yes, it maybe a better wing choice, certainly much less chance of chipping the tips, much stronger and swept up off the ground
Cool. I originally got the 450 due to it being more solid and the upturned tips, but lately have been considering buying the 483, partly to compare, but also since it was the stab originally paired with the 633. Sounds like it may be worth getting. Cheers :D

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm amd 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites - 9 +11mtr
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 126 times

Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby Foil » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:09 am

Just to add- I own two 483 stabs, a brand new one (spare) and my trusty old one lovingly looked after, but with rounded off ends due to damage, the sharp wafer thin ends chip off too easily, mainly when body dragging out at flag beach where the beach side reef can often catch the rear tips, so the result is a 483 stab with rounded tips and quite blunt.
the difference to my new 483 stab is zero, nothing at all, if anything my old stab is faster and smoother, which I put down to its excellent surface finish, all the moses paint has been removed, the 483 lettering everything down to base carbon, then sprayed with 3-4 coats of matt black acrylic spray paint, and fine finished with 600 then 800,finally 1200 paper to a more easily maintained and much better looking surface finish, my new stab will get the same treatment sometime, but its good to have a benchmark item for comparison.
Last edited by Foil on Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:21 am, edited 2 times in total.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: drsurf and 4 guests