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shimming the foil question - moses

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Foil
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Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby Foil » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:35 am

setting the correct level of trim and or balance point, be it mast position /footstrap position, or strapless foot position will be different for most riders, as this will differ according to the riders weight,
someone who weighs 105kg may need to tweak their mast forward a bit more than his buddy who sails the same kit but weighs 75kg, but also other considerations need to be factored in like the many who only use thierfront foot straps and place their back foot in front of the rear strap all the time, their COG will be placed more forward, maybe requiring the front straps to be moved back one screw hole, or the mast moving forward by 1 cm.
that's one reason why jumping on a mates board for a go can form a completely different view of the board and rig,
my buddy who is 25 kg lighter than me gave me his board to try out his new front wing that he had set up to suit him perfectly, result was I could hardly sail it, flipping awful. but we both sail with both feet locked in place under the straps, so that took away the ability to use foot position for better trim.
that's one reason why its not always valid to give advise on where to place your mast or footstraps for a given make/ brand.

Foil
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Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
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Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm amd 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633
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Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites - 9 +11mtr
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
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Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby Foil » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:20 am

a99 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:04 pm
Foil wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:46 am
cheap quick and easy shim production method, works a treat.
a butter tub lid.
draw the profile around the rear of the fuse using a sharpie pen, cut out 3 shapes with normal scissors, quick cheap easy effective.
i found just one of these thin shims worked well on your 450/633 combination, maybe just one degree of tilt.
but the 450 for me had a few other disadvantages that made me change back to using the standard 483 stab.
pauline went mad at our butter tub lid going missing, where did that go?
Can you upload the photo of your shim? not understand exactly from what material you made it. thanks.
Zero cost, very thin, easy to do, and Irish butter tastes the best :thumb:
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drsurf
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Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby drsurf » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:59 am

I weigh 65kg and with a Moses 633 and 679 I find a shim under the stabiliser makes the foil a lot more neutral in lift characteristics at high speed. Given that a foil setup could have a 55kg or 105 kg rider, being able to change the lift characteristics outside foot and mast placement is great. I believe Armstrong foils come with a range of shims to adjust the foil for a given rider or conditions.

It's easy to make and place a small shim on a Moses or any other brand of foil with a separate stabiliser and see if it works for you. There are no rules and there are plenty of foilers who have found an appropriate sized shim makes a positive difference. Try a shim and see what you think :)

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purdyd
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Re: shimming the foil question - moses

Postby purdyd » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:12 pm

drsurf wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:59 am
I weigh 65kg and with a Moses 633 and 679 I find a shim under the stabiliser makes the foil a lot more neutral in lift characteristics at high speed. Given that a foil setup could have a 55kg or 105 kg rider, being able to change the lift characteristics outside foot and mast placement is great. I believe Armstrong foils come with a range of shims to adjust the foil for a given rider or conditions.

It's easy to make and place a small shim on a Moses or any other brand of foil with a separate stabiliser and see if it works for you. There are no rules and there are plenty of foilers who have found an appropriate sized shim makes a positive difference. Try a shim and see what you think :)
Exactly,

If someone told me that they had too much front foot pressure I would tell them to move the foil back and or move forward.

But you can also trim using the stabilizer angle and you can make it less draggy (more neutral less front foot pressure) or more draggy and more stable (more front pressure).

It can depend on your experience, size, and what is your style what you will like.

Adrian Roper of axis foils in a podcast has a nice discussion on what this shimming does and why foils are not like airplanes.

About 18 minutes in

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ ... 0467466355

You could also change the stabilizer but a shim seems like a lot cheaper alternative.


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