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Foil Gybe Advice

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purdyd
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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby purdyd » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:20 pm

Rojbrown wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:26 pm
In a different thread (Armstrong vs Axis) advice was a different foil would Not allow for rapid progression such as this. I'm stuck in touch down gybe mode. For me that's the current and elusive goal. Yes, time on the water is probably the main limitation. Any feedback on equipment (specifically foil) to accelerate to this skill. Thanks!!
I have seen and experienced the same thing as kitegirls, having the right foil can make a big difference.

I think the problem with your question in the axis versus Armstrong foil thread is that you were asking about a couple of foils that there isn’t a huge experience base on.

A
Riding a Ke Nalu 580 foil which I've enjoyed (1084cm2).
might be a wonderful foil for gybing.

If you are touching down you could try a bigger kite, that should give you a bit more power and lift in the turn.

If you come out of a turn fast you will tend lift up.

You might just need a bit more wind or commit the kite more to the turn.

You could try a smaller board. Smaller boards will react faster in pitch and might help you correct faster.

You could try a different foil, one that gives better lift at a higher angle it will let you keep the board up at a slower speed.

You could try a longer mast and start higher in the turn.

Good luck!
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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby Eduardo » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:24 am

chibern wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:12 pm
Slight thread hijack...

What is the trick to high(er) speed gybes? For relatively sedate speeds, I can gybe fine. However, if I'm cruising along and want to do a sudden direction change I always outrun my kite especially in lower (10kt) winds. Do I just have to lean harder into the turn to tighten up the radius, downloop only, faster/slower kite movement?
if you are medium to well powered, wider radius gybes are fine because the kite will drift down wind with you while you are heading nearly down wind. once under powered, you have to have a very short time pointing the board downwind to avoid slack lines, which means tighter radius.

But a lot depends on kite timing. the board should turn later than you would for a surf board. if you're lightly powered, try waiting until the kite is nearly directly down wind of you before you even start turning. turning the board too early is a problem even in stronger winds. as I mentioned in my earlier post, the people I know who loop every gybe are just turning the board too early and then need the downwind surge of a kiteloop to compensate. I know the trick well from wave riding as it's important to be able to downloop the kite to get it down wind if the wave is taking you downwind too fast. But here, you choose how fast you go downwind. so no need...
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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby marlboroughman » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:10 am

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Last edited by marlboroughman on Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby purdyd » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:14 am

marlboroughman wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:10 am
16 session today and I can do this both ways without looking at the kite. Lets back it up to TT and surfboard to get a better picture.
TT - we dive the kite toward the water and when it goes back up, mid point we send it the other way and we follow it at full speed.
Surfboard - we send the kite all the way up change direction and we send it down on the other side on the new course.
Foil we send the kite to 12 from already high position say 1, with kite at 12 we turn and send the kite down but only to 11 and at this time we have to be on a new course slightly downwind. No following the the kite!!! Turning under it and sending it to the new side.
Actually you can do any of those kite movements with any of those boards, including a foil.

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:34 am

purdyd wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:14 am
marlboroughman wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:10 am
16 session today and I can do this both ways without looking at the kite. Lets back it up to TT and surfboard to get a better picture.
TT - we dive the kite toward the water and when it goes back up, mid point we send it the other way and we follow it at full speed.
Surfboard - we send the kite all the way up change direction and we send it down on the other side on the new course.
Foil we send the kite to 12 from already high position say 1, with kite at 12 we turn and send the kite down but only to 11 and at this time we have to be on a new course slightly downwind. No following the the kite!!! Turning under it and sending it to the new side.

Actually you can do any of those kite movements with any of those boards, including a foil.

Correct purdyd, it is simply personal experience and liking and style, and nothing but that, you can do either type on all types of boards, when jibing (and also downlooping of course, but it restricts the options somewhat, compared to flying "up").

I am sure if you took another rider, she/he could have 3 completely different ways as preferred, on TT/Surfboard/Hydrofoil boards :rollgrin:

It is also scenario dependant, whether low wind or high wind or waves or not, and how long your lines are, kitesize etc - which type one uses.

8) Peter

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby marlboroughman » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:29 pm

OK, Starsky you do it. I am done here

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby marlboroughman » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm

95% of people can't teach. Talk too much. Information overload. Good luck. Out.

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby SolarSet » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:02 pm

Hi all,

I'm into 20hr of foiling now on my Zeeko blaster 750cm2 wing and I started to try gybe with no luck.
Tried to gybe with board taxing - failed as board sinks due to low power from kite after gybe
Tried to gybe levitating which similar result as above, I'm doing turn but straight after it kite doesn't provide power to keep me levitating.
Tried foot switch while taxing just before gybe but I'm falling of board during gybe,
Yesterday ridden 8m XR and it was gusting from 12kts to 40kts (quite extreme range) but there were windows where wind was 16-18kts that I tried gybe.

Can someone explain what it easiest route to learn gybe? Should I try to gybe while taxing or better to be levitating? Foot switches before gybe so after gybe I'm on better stance?

I have tried changing foot while levitating yet but changing them while taxing seems hard enough.

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby robclaisse » Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:42 pm

I've been teaching lots of people to gybe recently in private lessons and virtual coaching, so thought I'd chirp in with a couple of specific things that come up over and over again - like pretty much with every person I've ever taught to gybe (probably 50+ people by now). But also to say there are so many ways to do a gybe, as many others have said - wind strength, kite size, kite style, foil size, sea state all play a part and can change the way you have to gybe. So just be aware that even once you get it for your 9m moderately powered in flat water, you may still have some re-training to do the next time when you are on your 12m or there is some chop etc. Anyway here are three things I seem to have to cover everytime:

1. Entering the Gybe - Faster than you think & Bent legs.
Most people enter the gybe too slow, whether its off the foil or foiling. Your initial speed is gonna get you through the first half of the carve. Don't go in crazy fast just a good moderate speed riding across the wind.
And no one EVER screwed up a gybe for bending their legs too much, getting their weight too low or forward :D Get low and you're more likely to save a screw up elsewhere, more easily.


2. The Most Common Mistake: Flying the kite too fast
This just happens time and time and time again. People say they are existing the gybe on their toeside with not enough power, the kite ending up too low - 95% of the time you're fly the kite up and over too fast. You start sending it up to 12 and then all your focus goes on the board as you stress about the upcoming the wobbly old toeside exit. So the kite just flies right across to the other side of the wind window before you've hardly carved and when you get round to your toeside the kite is bang up against the edge of the wind window, with no speed, so no hope of turning it back into the correct place.
Fly the kite REALLY slowly up to 12, way way way slower than you think, this gives you time to follow it with the board and foil.
Your aim is for the kite to be at 12 as your board reaches pointing directly downwind.
THEN once its at 12 pull hard and drop it directly down into the powerzone - like when you are starting the waterstart, that kite movement - this will give you power on the exit. Why? The kite is down dropping and therefore will accelerate and because its moving it will still turn, so you can steer it back up. It actually doesn't need to drop it low, turn it back up early and now you can exit and have the kite nice and high. High is safe and stable.
This image sums it up:
Progression - Carving Turn - Kite Movement - Kite Over the TOP.jpg

3. EXIT/Toeside - Ride Broad, Kite High
So just to repeat what I finished the last tip with - complete the gybe's kite movement by getting it high as quick as possible. With foiling the kite is always easier to handle when is high and you are standing up over the board (rather than leaning back against the kite). As you first start riding on your toeside you'll be focusing again on just controlling the damn board/foil and the kite will keep dropping so just ensure you don't forgot and you directing it up. When I coaching people on the BBtalkin for this, I am constantly just saying, kites getting to low, direct it up, direct it up, DIRECT IT UP! Everytime. This one is something you have to recognise and fight to ensure you keep in check.

Yeah so that is my 3 cents ;) Hope it helps...

And I do have a full Carving Turn video on the Progression site but this free YouTube video also has a couple of these points illustrated and may help:

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby robclaisse » Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:50 pm

SolarSet wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:02 pm
Can someone explain what it easiest route to learn gybe? Should I try to gybe while taxing or better to be levitating? Foot switches before gybe so after gybe I'm on better stance?
It's different for everyone. Some people find it easier to just jump straight in with the foiling carves and others need to go back to the Off the foil (taxi-ing, board on the water) version. Generally I get people to try on the foil if they are happy to give it a go and see where the issues arise. Often the problem is with the toeside part. if you find that riding toeside feels so unstable and scary whilst foiling then it is easier to start the whole gybe off the foil so that you can commit to staying that way through out. Once you build some muscle memory and skills for the toeside riding, you'll find you naturally start to pop up on the foil and then you can bring foiling back into the whole gybe. Often you just need that confidence for the toeside so you can commit to the gybe upfront.

Board size can also make a difference. if you are already riding a small board the riding off the foil can be way harder so you might be forced to try and foil through out. A shorter board might also mean if you do touch down you're more like to slow and sink. So sticking with a bigger board until you get your carving turns might be worth while.

I'd find that people find the foot change way way harder than the carve or toeside riding so most people start to learn that after they have got some carving turns and have some experience riding toeside.
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