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Foil Gybe Advice

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Eduardo
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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby Eduardo » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:07 pm

kitegirls wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:10 am
Ive been trying for a couple months now to turn and I fail every time. Ive watched every youtube video twice and tried everything from turning fast to turning slow and everything in-between. The only thing I can do is a quickish turn from heel-side regular foot to toe-side goofy. I can go about 10 or 20 feet then sink. My toe-side sucks and my goofy heel-side to toe-side gybe never happens. I ride strait into my kite everytime and can never get around to toeside goofy (Im regular). Any advice before I sell my foil? Thanks
You will get there!

It sounds like you can pivot turn. A few possibilities:
- on toe side, are you sure you have a good board and body position, board pointing reasonably across wind, reasonably flat to start, weight balanced, ...

- since you seem to get stuck heading straight down wind, it seems you might need practice turning. maybe some s-turns without a gybe to get a better feel of what the foil does vs. surf board.

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purdyd
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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby purdyd » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:45 pm

kitegirls wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:10 am
Ive been trying for a couple months now to turn and I fail every time. Ive watched every youtube video twice and tried everything from turning fast to turning slow and everything in-between. The only thing I can do is a quickish turn from heel-side regular foot to toe-side goofy. I can go about 10 or 20 feet then sink. My toe-side sucks and my goofy heel-side to toe-side gybe never happens. I ride strait into my kite everytime and can never get around to toeside goofy (Im regular). Any advice before I sell my foil? Thanks
Edit- if you are doing a pivot turn you are in lightish winds or going really slow. You likely have to really commit to sending the kite the other way and will likely have to sine it to keep going toeside.

I was where you are.

I changed foils from a slingshot space skate to a cloud 9 x28.

That made a huge difference and 2 sessions later I was gibing.

Riding toe side I found a rope slider also made a huge difference.

The other thing is commitment. Both of the kite and the turn.

Kites in lighter wind turn slower so if you are coming out if a turn and sinking, you got ahead of the kite.

Also toe side will take a bit more wind to keep going especially at first.

You might try a bit more wind or a size larger kite,

If you aren’t getting the board around, you need to commit to the carve and having some speed (not too much) really helps. Or you can do more of a pivot and let the kite pull you around.

One thing I had problems with is that as I slowed down my reflex was to put more rear foot pressure, from years of riding a surfboard,. I found riding 4 days straight only on foil helped reprogram my reflexes.

Also the cloud 9 foils are very surfy and helped that it has a similar feel to a hard rail to rail raving turn on a surfboard.

Finally don’t give up. Things just click one day on a foil, but nothing was easy up to that point.

It took me several months to get my foot switch which is slow but steady now.

You might try a balance board. I have a goof board and you can balance side to side or length wise.

My friend says he finds himself walking around and practicing his footwork.

Good luck and keep at it!

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby Trent hink » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:50 pm

My problem with gybing when learning hydrofoil was always looking at the kite. Once i stopped doing that i could keep my eyes on the water and see what height i was riding the foil at.

Now, i don't have to pay much attention, unless its wavy.

Make sure you are continuing to ride away from the kite when you turn to toeside. Practice on a conventional tt or surfboard if you are having problems with it.

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:18 pm

If a schmuck like me can learn to gybe on a LF Fun Foil with a bent fuselage, then anyone can.

That being said... factors can affect the learning curve, such as water and wind quality.

Get some video of yourself and you’ll get better advice.

My question slash tip is, are you using a fixed hook spreader bar? I’ve only foiled with one once and it was horribly difficult after using a Dynabar for years... Gone back to using a fixed hook when riding TT and I find it all but impossible to ride toe side now.

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby geokite » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:50 pm

To the OP: can you gybe, heelside to toeside, on a TT or SB?

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:34 am

You can try another type of gibe: the pivot-gibe, starting at very high upwind angle. This one worked for a person in your case sticking at the classic downwind gibe...

1- you go upwind the max you can, kite low

2- when it is so close to the wind it will slow down and just before you start loosing your planing, send your kite upward to the opposite wind window (current back hand, with engagement) like if you wanted to jump not high.

3- when kite starts pulling upward, turn 180 degree (downwind) as quick as possible, using your hip rotation to turn your foil very quicly (rotate almost around the mast) ... and still pursue kite roration...

3- the lift of the kite will support your weight and you go very slow here, not scaring. But since the hydrofoil will go a bit downwind, kite will pull less and you will not jump actually....

4- pursue rotating the kite up to Leading edge donward

5- once LE downward, stop its rotation and redirect the kite (new back hand) in the new direction.

6- smile and shout !

Really fun and no risk to get slack lines or kite loss of power for your planning. Efficent in very light wind as well, and easier to train in light wind.

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby cwood » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:34 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:34 am
You can try another type of gibe: the pivot-gibe, starting at very high upwind angle. This one worked for a person in your case sticking at the classic downwind gibe...

1- you go upwind the max you can, kite low

2- when it is so close to the wind it will slow down and just before you start loosing your planing, send your kite upward to the opposite wind window (current back hand, with engagement) like if you wanted to jump not high.

3- when kite starts pulling upward, turn 180 degree (downwind) as quick as possible, using your hip rotation to turn your foil very quicly (rotate almost around the mast) ... and still pursue kite roration...

3- the lift of the kite will support your weight and you go very slow here, not scaring. But since the hydrofoil will go a bit downwind, kite will pull less and you will not jump actually....

4- pursue rotating the kite up to Leading edge donward

5- once LE downward, stop its rotation and redirect the kite (new back hand) in the new direction.

6- smile and shout !

Really fun and no risk to get slack lines or kite loss of power for your planning. Efficent in very light wind as well, and easier to train in light wind.
This, line tension is key...riding harder up wind, kite quite low, start the kite upward as you start your carve and pace the kite arc to the new direction in pace with your carve. It will maintain line tension. If you just try to transition kite from normal cruising position you will get slack lines and stall the foil. Other solutions are downloop or riding with a slightly overpowered condition...in which case any kite transition will maintain tension. Once you get timing right its fun to drive upwind with kite almost on the water and then send it hard upward while you carve and it all comes together out the other side...either toe side or throw a foot switch mid carve.

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby alowishus » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:58 am

I found that when learning to gybe, going slightly downwind first (riding heelside) i.e. allowing the kite to drift back in the window, and then downlooping as I gybe into toeside, paying careful attention to line tension, helped me understand the whole thing without getting smashed so much.

The timing is different whether it is strong wind or light wind, so it can take a little while to figure it out in all conditions.

It's not your foil or your kite, it's you, but we've all been there :D Keep trying.

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:50 am

jumptheshark wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:13 am
Stick with your comfy heel side to comfy toe side and back until it clicks. Give it more speed. Not crazy more, but if our sinking after the turn, you need more speed and more practice at toe side riding.

Best advice :thumb:

Simply carry on - we have all been through the exact same "troubles" like you experience - it takes quite long for most of us to master.


You are quite new, so you are probably not riding low powered (as some seem to comment here), as this require a lot of skill, compared to having a tad bigger kite for the given wind.

But when you try to jibe, you will make an arc that is too wide, and get slack lines, thus on your toeside you have NO power.
Also, when learning, you can not ride much upwind toeside, so keeping lines tight (power) is even more difficult.

Especially in lighter winds with bigger kites, everything is hugely more difficult in this respect, as here you NEED to make tighter more correctly timed carves.

So using a smaller kite in somewhat more wind, could be a way to get a grip on how to carve around and keep foiling.
Only downside is, you risk to get on the "runaway" downwind course suddenly - but at least then you know you have completed a full carve :rollgrin:

Downlooping works for a few, but I would not go that way, till you have mastered the normal carve, then you can learn to use both.


A few classic pointers:

Turning the foilboard is done very differently, as you dont use the edges at all - so no pushing with your feet to carve from heelside.
You should use the "yaw" move, meaning you twist your lower body into the turn, almost like you try to push your front foot sideways into the turn, like kicking a ball (while leaning into the turn now as you will turn quite tight when learned).
Learn the yaw move by doing slalom going straight, and get the board to move left and right really fast, by twisting.
The more competent you get at this, the better you will be able to make a tight carve to avoid slack lines - which is key.

Timing, when and how fast and how powered/depowered and how high/low you fly the kite over - is really difficult and something you will learn and then never think about it again.
But till then, it is simply hundreds of "try and learn".

You could add some extensions to your lines, IF you are using stock short lines (21-24 meter only), as this will give a longer powerstroke through the turn, and make it easier. 25-27 meters works good.

Also, as said, point quite high before you carve - never go downwind as it will be the road to disaster (but can work great for downloops).

8) Peter

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Re: Foil Gybe Advice

Postby tomtom » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:08 am

Are we are talking about 180 turn toeside to heelside /viceversa/ or footswitch? There is big differences in terminology among peoples in this regard
I will wait from OP to clarify.


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