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Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

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slowboat
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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby slowboat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:25 pm

kiteykitekite wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:53 am
Kites through lulls is no issue, you can just land on the water. Until I see a wing can do as or better on the water than a kite I wouldn't even consider them. Especially considering just the wing alone costs more than a hydrofoil+board+kite. To me it's another marketing gimmick for the greedy resellers. Add the expensive board as well, then why bother. It's bad enough breaking hydrofoils in proper waves.
Not meant as a personal attack but this is pretty silly. Or are you being sarcastic?

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby omg » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:34 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:11 pm
omg wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:00 pm
One more question on the wingfoiling; people are marketing the wingfoil as an ultimate solution for the really gusty conditions, ie. smaller lakes surrounded wih trees etc. but I’m wondering if it’s really true and how one would compare wings to say Peak4 4/5m kites which people also tell to have the best gust handling ability?

Thanks once again.
I have been in a lot of places where the wind was so gusty and shifty (more than 45 degree changes) where a kite would basically just fold and fall out of the sky. Even a single skin cannot handle these type of conditions and will end up folding up and crashing. The wing however can deal with these conditions a lot better. Also you can pump through the shifts and holes without worrying about the wing. With a kite you always need to worry about keeping it in the air somehow and that limits the courses you can pump when the wind stops in a 10 second or more lull.

The fact that you do not have to relaunch a wing makes these type of conditions bearable where even a Peak4 will end up getting in the drink, and it is a pain to relaunch single skin kites out of the water even under normal conditions with long lines, but combine that with the massive shifts which blow the kite over it turns into a nightmare.



--
Gunnar
Awesome, thanks Gunnar! What foil would you take then (I currently have the 633, but I guess I need bigger?) 790, 873 or 1100 when the waves are small, but winds are 20-25 max30 knots range with some holes in the wind? Thanks a lot once again!

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby gmb13 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:52 pm

omg wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:34 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:11 pm
omg wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:00 pm
One more question on the wingfoiling; people are marketing the wingfoil as an ultimate solution for the really gusty conditions, ie. smaller lakes surrounded wih trees etc. but I’m wondering if it’s really true and how one would compare wings to say Peak4 4/5m kites which people also tell to have the best gust handling ability?

Thanks once again.
I have been in a lot of places where the wind was so gusty and shifty (more than 45 degree changes) where a kite would basically just fold and fall out of the sky. Even a single skin cannot handle these type of conditions and will end up folding up and crashing. The wing however can deal with these conditions a lot better. Also you can pump through the shifts and holes without worrying about the wing. With a kite you always need to worry about keeping it in the air somehow and that limits the courses you can pump when the wind stops in a 10 second or more lull.

The fact that you do not have to relaunch a wing makes these type of conditions bearable where even a Peak4 will end up getting in the drink, and it is a pain to relaunch single skin kites out of the water even under normal conditions with long lines, but combine that with the massive shifts which blow the kite over it turns into a nightmare.



--
Gunnar
Awesome, thanks Gunnar! What foil would you take then (I currently have the 633, but I guess I need bigger?) 790, 873 or 1100 when the waves are small, but winds are 20-25 max30 knots range with some holes in the wind? Thanks a lot once again!

Hi,

If the winds are 20 to 25 knots you can get away with the 790. Personally I prefer a quiver of the 1100 and 790. This covers everything from 6 knots to 30 knots for me. If you plan to use a smaller board (sinker or semi sinker) I recommend you use the 1100 in gusty conditions.


--
Gunnar
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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby Slappysan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:27 pm

mike dubs wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:52 am
You can get a wing for way less than the cost of a kite.
No, have you priced the Peak 4? It's one of the cheapest kites on the market. A 5m will get you going and having fun in 10 knots and costs $550 for kite and you can get a good bar for $200 if you shop around. Compare that to the Gong Wing Plus which costs 600 euro ($660 USD) and will probably have extra charges getting in from France, even though it's one of the cheapest wings on the market. If you want an Ozone Wasp 6m that'll cost you $900.

Also you need to consider the board, to wingsurf you need a 80L+ board which many wont already have and will set you back another $1200.

Most people who are asking about winds like this are talking inland lakes, and although I don't wingsurf I can imagine them being lots of fun if there is swell but really really boring if there is just chop like you'll find on most inland lakes. Really if the winds aren't gusty that means you have a nice big fetch of water upwind to generate some waves so gusty wins is either offshore wind or no wave wind. While the Peak 4 isn't the most fun kite without waves it's certainly going to be a bit more entertaining than wingsurfing in those same conditions.

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby kiteykitekite » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:59 am

mike dubs wrote: You can get a wing for way less than the cost of a kite.
Ok how much cheaper than $89? Are we talking umbrella wing?
gmb13 wrote: I have been in a lot of places where the wind was so gusty and shifty (more than 45 degree changes) where a kite would basically just fold and fall out of the sky.
It depends what part of the window the kite is in. I have ridden where the wind changes 180degrees. The kite gets pushed at you lines go slack, even have the kite rotate in the air on slack lines. Often though it will recover fine. The prevailing wind resumes quickly kite gets tension again. A kite folding or falling is hardly the end of the world, many kites can handle this, and is in fact the best way to get a surf experience from them.
gmb13 wrote: The wing however can deal with these conditions a lot better.
No doubt it is easier or more pleasant on a wing, in certain situations. The conditions I wonder is when there is consistently no wind at rider height but then good wind at 5-10m plus I mean even at 20m you can use 40m lines to get to it easy. Say you may have 20knots at 20m but 5knots at rider height. What size wing works in 5knots? Or should I use a 3m kite on 30-40m lines?
gmb13 wrote: Also you can pump through the shifts and holes without worrying about the wing.
Well you can pump with a kite too.
gmb13 wrote: With a kite you always need to worry about keeping it in the air somehow and that limits the courses you can pump when the wind stops in a 10 second or more lull.
True.
gmb13 wrote: The fact that you do not have to relaunch a wing makes these type of conditions bearable where even a Peak4 will end up getting in the drink, and it is a pain to relaunch single skin kites out of the water even under normal conditions with long lines, but combine that with the massive shifts which blow the kite over it turns into a nightmare.
It is definitely not easy with a kite. Peak has the disadvantage where it will drop on the water, so probably better with another kite.
slowboat wrote: Not meant as a personal attack but this is pretty silly. Or are you being sarcastic?
No I am not being sarcastic. Which part is silly.

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby bigtone667 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:21 am

kiteykitekite wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:59 am
mike dubs wrote: You can get a wing for way less than the cost of a kite.
Ok how much cheaper than $89? Are we talking umbrella wing?
gmb13 wrote: I have been in a lot of places where the wind was so gusty and shifty (more than 45 degree changes) where a kite would basically just fold and fall out of the sky.
It depends what part of the window the kite is in. I have ridden where the wind changes 180degrees. The kite gets pushed at you lines go slack, even have the kite rotate in the air on slack lines. Often though it will recover fine. The prevailing wind resumes quickly kite gets tension again. A kite folding or falling is hardly the end of the world, many kites can handle this, and is in fact the best way to get a surf experience from them.
gmb13 wrote: The wing however can deal with these conditions a lot better.
No doubt it is easier or more pleasant on a wing, in certain situations. The conditions I wonder is when there is consistently no wind at rider height but then good wind at 5-10m plus I mean even at 20m you can use 40m lines to get to it easy. Say you may have 20knots at 20m but 5knots at rider height. What size wing works in 5knots? Or should I use a 3m kite on 30-40m lines?
gmb13 wrote: Also you can pump through the shifts and holes without worrying about the wing.
Well you can pump with a kite too.
gmb13 wrote: With a kite you always need to worry about keeping it in the air somehow and that limits the courses you can pump when the wind stops in a 10 second or more lull.
True.
gmb13 wrote: The fact that you do not have to relaunch a wing makes these type of conditions bearable where even a Peak4 will end up getting in the drink, and it is a pain to relaunch single skin kites out of the water even under normal conditions with long lines, but combine that with the massive shifts which blow the kite over it turns into a nightmare.
It is definitely not easy with a kite. Peak has the disadvantage where it will drop on the water, so probably better with another kite.
slowboat wrote: Not meant as a personal attack but this is pretty silly. Or are you being sarcastic?
No I am not being sarcastic. Which part is silly.
Is it reasonable to assume you have no interest in winging?

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby bigtone667 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:23 am

And I personally think winging is initially quite expensive compared to kiting: Aus Dollar - $1500 foil, $1500 SUP, $1200 Wing ....... gets a bit cheaper as you acquire more wings.

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby kiteykitekite » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:50 am

No I do have an interest, that is why I am discussing it. I am interested in where it is better than kiting and where it is not. So far I see there is pros and cons. I think if you don't kite maybe winging is a good option. If you supfoil then winging is a very good option. I see the cost of winging being a disadvantage, especially if you already kite. I am not a fan of large boards if you don't need them. With kitefoiling the board has little if any importance. I am also disillusioned to the the whole surf and kite industry, I have seen more than enough gimmicks in my life. That said winging does look fun and I can see quite a few advantages, it's just I can't see enough yet to warrant doing it.

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby cglazier » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:21 am

I follow threads like this because I learn from people like Gunnar (gmb13) and Peter Frank (and some others) and I respect their opinions. I pay less attention to those who have never even tried it but I guess it's a public forum and any anyone can post..

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Re: Wingfoil - is it truly the best for really gusty winds? Better than Peak4?

Postby bigtone667 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:17 am

kiteykitekite wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:50 am
No I do have an interest, that is why I am discussing it. I am interested in where it is better than kiting and where it is not. So far I see there is pros and cons. I think if you don't kite maybe winging is a good option. If you supfoil then winging is a very good option. I see the cost of winging being a disadvantage, especially if you already kite. I am not a fan of large boards if you don't need them. With kitefoiling the board has little if any importance. I am also disillusioned to the the whole surf and kite industry, I have seen more than enough gimmicks in my life. That said winging does look fun and I can see quite a few advantages, it's just I can't see enough yet to warrant doing it.
I also wondered whether or not it would be a worthwhile investment.

I was already giving SUP foiling a go as a sunday morning activity waiting for wind. So I had invested in the board and foil. All I needed was a wing.
Invested in a wing and would only kite about 30% of the time now.

There are a bunch of places I now wing on my local lake that I would never kite due to the lack of launching/landing/trees/offshore conditions. I wing them now.


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