Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Moses W 633 speed

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
Javierozores
Rare Poster
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:39 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: A Coruña
Gear: moses W633
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Moses W 633 speed

Postby Javierozores » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:22 pm

I have moses T-22 mounted on 91 cm mast and W633 - S483 (fuselaje 710) and the max speed i reached was 21 knots, althought i like this wing so much and dont want to change it, i would like to get some more speed out of it.
Do any of you mounted this wing with stabilizer S450?..... did you get more speed?
Is it worth to spend the money in a knew stablizer?

I am wondering to buy a different stabilizer but moses only offers s483 and s450 to mount with fuselaje 710 any other combination forces me to buy a knew fuselaje

what would you recomend me?

plasma180
Medium Poster
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 12:27 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Style: Hydrofoil / Twintip / Wave
Gear: too much stuff
Brand Affiliation: Duotone / Flysurfer / Ozone
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Moses W 633 speed

Postby plasma180 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:43 pm

Hi,

the speed depends on your riding skills, body weight and how choppy the water is, my topspeed with 95Kgs on the 633/483 - 23,8Kn on a choppy and gusty lake,

I think the 450 would be not faster

Cheers
These users thanked the author plasma180 for the post:
merl (Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:14 pm)
Rating: 8.33%

User avatar
Frankieboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 908
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:05 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Moses W 633 speed

Postby Frankieboy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:28 pm

450 is not fast at all, a LOT of lift and the whole thing get unstable at 17knots

To go faster you need to get a small stab.

330 is also compatible and faster then 450. Not as stable though.
Only used the 330 once socan't say anything more...

I understand the compatibility info on their web site is not accurate as you can fit other stabs as wel (like 330)

With my Ketos 1200 and small XS2 stab I also reach +-20 knots max

But this is always in light wind (the water gets too choppy when the wind picks up), riding a strapless pocket board with slow kite (Cloud) !!!

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 9912
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 219 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: Moses W 633 speed

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:30 pm

plasma180 is right :D

It's not about the stab, it is primarily you.

But why do you want to go faster on this very wing?

You have got a really really big thus slow wing perfect for riding waves, overall lightwind fun, easy to learn stuff on this one too, and great fun can turn on a dime.

Going fast is not what it is meant for, so get a smaller wing if that is your goal :thumb:

Moses got many faster wings.

8) Peter

drsurf
Frequent Poster
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:42 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NSW South Coast
Gear: Too much too describe
Brand Affiliation: Whatever I sell
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 69 times
Contact:

Re: Moses W 633 speed

Postby drsurf » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:02 pm

Just swap your 633 wing for the 679 front wing and you'll have your speed with very little downside in light winds and it has the manoeuvrability of the 633. Pumps better as well depending on your weight.
You can use the 330 stabiliser for even more speed on the 679. I have both front wings and they are both great, but if you want speed with ease then the 679 is the go.

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm + 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633/483 on a 701 fuse
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr + 9mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites - 9 +11mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
duotone click bar 2020
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 162 times

Re: Moses W 633 speed

Postby Foil » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:27 pm

Peters comments are right for many riders,
but a lot of us want that yeharr speed rush every now a then.
often when conditions permit, then gunning it for speed is great fun and 26knts is the top out speed for the 633+483stab, maybe 26.5 on a good day, and that feels flipping fast!
to get there you need everything just right, and ideally when holding the speed at the maximum you want to feel stable and the rig totally silent, so smooth so you can look down at the rear of the mast to see the little rooster tail of fine spray, and in clear water see all the wing surfaces clear of bubbles and working efficiently.
being locked down in 2 straps helps a lot when you want to hold that speed and be able to steer a smooth line through the water without letting off the power, and that is a very satisfying feeling at times edging nearer to that feeling of blasting along on a fast slalom windsurfer,
that feeling of trying to control the lift that the 633 wing keeps pulsing through your feet as a wave/swell pushes up beneath the wing is addictive.

To spoil this amazing feeling then stick a 450 back wing on, awful for point a squirt speed bursts, but superb in the waves at slower wave style speeds.
is it maybe your surfaces holding you back?
what is the feeling you get through your gear as you get near your maximum speed?

by the way I use a freeride foil kite to get to my speeds, silky smooth locked in progressive power, never overpowered as this can end up being slower.
I did go down the road of owning the Moses full race wings, super fast and great exciting fun, but just like hiring a jet ski, it gets boing all to quickly.
too focused on speed and not great in the waves and swell or going slow when you need/want to, and returning to shore to change wings is full of frustration.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 9912
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 219 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: Moses W 633 speed

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:00 pm

Foil, the only reason if it works like that, is because the trim is different.

You can change the stab aoa to get it like you want, to obtain more speed because of more control :thumb:

Overall drag of the stab is only a very small parameter, it is all about control.

8) Peter

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2384
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/105/111cm masts with 637+695/425 590/330 679/450 wingsets, Tim's 36" woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $480, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, BROkite carbon board 140x44cm like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530

Moses 590/647/330 $690, Moses 679/749/483 $890, 80cm alu mast $260
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 189 times
Been thanked: 257 times

Re: Moses W 633 speed

Postby grigorib » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:02 pm

Yo can use pretty much any Moses stabilizer manufactured in past 4 years with 710 fuselage. See compatibility chart here viewtopic.php?p=1075851#p1075851
However, 450 will move your stance forward by couple of inches compared to 483 and with fixed mast connection that's not what you might want to do. And 450 will not go any faster - it's as thick as 483 with slightly larger area.
Many people like smaller stabilizers, like 330 or 325 for large wings for more speed, since they're thinner and have less area, but many people myself included don't like it. One stabilizer you should demo if you can is 425 - that one is thin and is the largest of all thin stabilizers so hopefully it won't impact wing stability.

Also as stated above the 683s/679 wings would go faster too since they're 20% thinner and 20% smaller area compared to 633. Those might be golden with 425 stabilizer but I haven't tried yet. I know for sure that kite wing 695 with race stabilizer behaved way better than with 330 - more lowend, earlier start

450 and kite stabilizers have advantage of wingtips pointed up which helps to prevent damage.
These users thanked the author grigorib for the post (total 2):
Frankieboy (Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:04 pm) • a99 (Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:53 am)
Rating: 16.67%

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm + 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633/483 on a 701 fuse
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr + 9mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites - 9 +11mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
duotone click bar 2020
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 162 times

Re: Moses W 633 speed

Postby Foil » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:22 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:00 pm
Foil, the only reason if it works like that, is because the trim is different.

You can change the stab aoa to get it like you want, to obtain more speed because of more control :thumb:

Overall drag of the stab is only a very small parameter, it is all about control.

8) Peter
yes i agree the shimming exercise really does alter the whole feel of the rig, and getting the fine balance between your feet right, shiming trials can be sort of fun, as you are learning all the time about trim angles and finding the right feel for you,
I carried round a little trim kit in a bag zipped into my kite bag whilst away at flag beach for my extended stay, lots of little shims, torx key for wing removal on the beach.
to be honest it got frustrating for me as every time i found a better angle I used it for the day but always bench tested it against the standard 633 and 483, and for me I could not believe just how good that standard set up felt against the many configurations i was playing about with,
in that period on flag I was trying to get excited about my new moses 720 baltz pro and 450, 483 and another new 633, and 710 stab.( all bought from Gunnars new shop on the island) :thumb:
I think after 12 months now I have got through most of the moses wing range, expensive fun but now all ended with the conclusion that the 633/483/ on the 710 fuse with .5deg of shim on the back hole of the stab works brilliantly for me,and certainly gives me the smile factor more than anything else.
that's in all conditions, 9.5cm of gap between the rear of the board and mast base, both foot straps used 100% time,
These users thanked the author Foil for the post (total 2):
grigorib (Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:09 pm) • Frankieboy (Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:04 pm)
Rating: 16.67%

grandeand
Medium Poster
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:21 pm
Local Beach: Italy..Calabrone, fiumaretta, lo stagnone
Gear: Principiante
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Moses W 633 speed

Postby grandeand » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:28 pm

in my opinion it is not the right material for speed.
because at the maximum speed it feels not very stable and anyway you can reach no more than 25/26 knots at least me with 683-483 and 101 mast.
already with the 590- 330 I have an average of 6/7 km more than average ...
and then it must be said that to make speed you also need courage to push the material to its maximum limits ...
surely you need the straps on your feet , a fairly wide stance, also a perfect positioning of the mast with the stern strap.
the stern foot should be between the center of the must plate, and perhaps even better on the front nut of the must plate.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gerrob1, innovader, joriws and 11 guests

cron