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Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

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Huib
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Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby Huib » Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:39 pm

Ketos came out with a shorter fuselage.
What is the advantage of a shorter fuselage against a smaller stab? A smaller stab gives less drag and is cheaper to buy.
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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby BWD » Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:28 pm

Short fuse is interesting for lighter weight and shallower draft in waterstarts depending on technique.
I will probably buy/build a mini stab before I buy a short fuse though, cheaper way to see if I like the feel

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby windmaker » Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:59 pm

I have had long and short fuselages for a few years now (F-One), the shorter one makes the foil more nimble when waveriding and is probably has less drag, combined with a smaller stab is very responsive. Longer fuselage with a bigger stab (the other extreme) should be better for learning as more stable.

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby Huib » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:27 pm

Long fuselage + small stab = Short fuselage + big stab ?

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby purdyd » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:37 pm

I suppose it depends on how much shorter the fuselage and how much smaller, the angle, and the shape of the stab.

Depends on what you are trying to achieve.

I think the stab has more impact on glide and turning than the fuse.

If you want less drag and better glide, you might be able to shim the stabilizer one or two degrees so it produces less downward force.

It seems like a pretty easy thing to try.

Some have been chopping down the stabilizer, look up chop shop.

I don’t know how the ketos fuselage is constructed but you might be able to tap holes and move the positioning.

I have a cloud 9 carbon fuselage that has three different spots to put the stabilizer and I know some of the guys have drilled and tapped a hole even farther forward. The design allows for that.

I’ve moved the stab around on that setup and concluded I didn’t notice a lot of difference so I haven’t rushed to shorten my fuselage.

I have an Armstrong foil setup with their standard stabilizer with flipped up wingtips and their high speed stabilizer that is much more flat with very little flip in the tips.

There is a marked difference between those setups.

To be honest the biggest difference in my opinion is in the front wing.

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby Huib » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:50 pm

@ Purdyd. Ketos wings and stabs are very well balanced. Never heard that anyone used or needed shims for a Ketos foil. You can use any wing with any stab they produced. I would never change anything to the fuselage.

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purdyd
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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby purdyd » Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:58 pm

Huib wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:50 pm
@ Purdyd. Ketos wings and stabs are very well balanced. Never heard that anyone used or needed shims for a Ketos foil. You can use any wing with any stab they produced. I would never change anything to the fuselage.
https://ketos-foil.com/en/home/206-kit ... m-set.html
73170F31-D59D-4840-8F80-8476D3BBB8A4.png
Our foils are designed to give satisfaction to the greatest number of riders.

But depending on the foil you had to learn kitefoil, on your morphology, on your position on the board... you may feel the need to decrease pression on your front or back foot.
http://kitefoil.forumactif.org/t7142-r ... eze.com.au

Go for it! shorten your Kétos it's another world
Me it's been done for 1 year and I keep improving in waves and carving
10cm is good
With my favorite I have 30cm between trailing edge of front wing and stab leading edge
The 900 is good best off and the 1000 is a 1200 cross-cut in size
You will notice the front wings moved back !! that also changes a lot of things !!
Last edited by purdyd on Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby Frankieboy » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:01 pm

Huib wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:50 pm
@ Purdyd. Ketos wings and stabs are very well balanced. Never heard that anyone used or needed shims for a Ketos foil. You can use any wing with any stab they produced. I would never change anything to the fuselage.
They do deliver a shim for the karver stab
Some people need it. I didn't with my 1200 though

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby Breze » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:11 pm

I tried the 0.2° shim to decrease the front food pressure with the Wave xl and ths SFR stab. Didn`t liked it , nervous and it felt more draggy to me. Like Frankie said it`s for the Karver

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby plummet » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:15 pm

The way I look at it is this. Fuselage length is like the wheelbase on your car or bike. Short wheelbase is maneuverable at slower speeds but less stable at higher speeds. Long is the otherway around, more stable at high speeds but less maneuverable. Fast and stable, go long. Slow an maneuverable go short.

Of course you can make a short fuse more stable by adding more stab size. But you will increase drag and decrease to top speed.
Inversely you can increase maneuverability on a long fuse by reducing the stab size but you will compromise stability.

Really fuse length should be determined by speed. The faster you want to go the longer it should be. The slower the shorter. Pick the length that suits your style.
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