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Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

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Huib
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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby Huib » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:36 pm

So, a long fuselage with a small stab is fast and maneuverable but less stable then a short fuselage with a big stab which is slow but maneuverable and stable.
But a long fuselage gives because of his lenght already more stabilty?

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby plummet » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:38 pm

Maybe an easier way to look at it is a longer fuse will increase the turning radius, shorter fuse tighter radius.

A mini with a small turning radius will be twitchy at speed compared to say a bus that will will be very stable.

You cant make a mini into a bus or vise versa.

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby windmaker » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:17 am

Huib wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:27 pm
Long fuselage + small stab = Short fuselage + big stab ?
The fuselage length will primarily have a greater effect on the yaw of your foil, the stab size will mostly affect the pitch.

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purdyd
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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby purdyd » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:38 pm

windmaker wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:17 am
Huib wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:27 pm
Long fuselage + small stab = Short fuselage + big stab ?
The fuselage length will primarily have a greater effect on the yaw of your foil, the stab size will mostly affect the pitch.
I would say, no, the reason that fuselages and stabs impact pitch is the same for yaw.

It is moment arm, force times distance, the arm is the length (distance) of the fuselage, and the force is produced by by the stabilizer and is roughly a function of the area.

As for which has more impact, that would depend on how much change you make in the fuselage versus how much change you make in the stabilizer.

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:53 pm

Agree fully with purdyd on this one, the pitch and yaw will be impacted the same.

A really interesting question though, as what is the difference beteween long fuselage small stab and short fuselage bigger stab?

Well, in terms of stability, the longer fuselage will have benefits, because it is out (further away) of the main wing and mast turbulences, and also free of the downwash flow.

But a short fuselage will no doubt be able to give you a sharper turn without stalling the stab, or at least push the stab harder for some instants, without stalling.

In terms of performance, the longer fuselage and small stab should have less drag in theory, BUT, as the fuselage dont ride low drag at all AOA's, this is probably not true.

AND, if you can use a small stab, AND a shorter fuselage, the best performance is obtained, if sufficiently stable (as stability in itself deliver real world performance).


Back to the freeriders/waveriders, whether the shorter fuselage and ability to turn on a dime without stalling the stab - can it be used or not?

Maybe we can turn so narrow with "normal" fuselages now, that it wont give us anything?
Or maybe the shorter fuselage will be a treat for those who CAN push it super sharp/narrow?

I like to use so small stabs often, that a shorter fuselage AND a small stab, would fit me spot on I think :thumb:

But dont know, as all above knowledge is worth nothing, compared to having tried it many times, and comparing :D

A bit similar to the mast position on fuselage, only testing and riding a lot, can find the best overall position (which is what almost everyone uses now, many years later)

8) Peter
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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby jakemoore » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:12 pm

Could it be there are limits on the construction of small stabilos moulding composites? E.G. Ketos is offering machined G-10 stabilos as well as carbon. So a short fuse lets a person can get a more reactive foil if they are already riding the smaller stab.

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby Huib » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:14 pm

I already ordered and will receive a new small stab XS2 tommorow. :D
Peter, you already have a small stab. So I assume you will order the new short fuselage from Ketos :wink:
Please give us a review when you can :remybussi:

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby foilfun » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:52 am

I enjoy mono and stubby foiling so much that I have several combinations of them. I have one dedicated mono, while the others work as both. My style is wave/carving and freestyle/jumping. They are not great for pure speed runs, so if max GPS is your thing, leave it long.

In addition to the added agility on the water, they are much easier to travel with, put in the car/van, and generally just carry around. The fuselage with the two wings attached will fit in a travel bag. 😁
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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby BWD » Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:10 am

@foilfun
Wow, quite a menagerie! :o

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Re: Shorter fuselage or smaller stab?

Postby purdyd » Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:21 am

foilfun wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:52 am
I enjoy mono and stubby foiling so much that I have several combinations of them. I have one dedicated mono, while the others work as both. My style is wave/carving and freestyle/jumping. They are not great for pure speed runs, so if max GPS is your thing, leave it long.

In addition to the added agility on the water, they are much easier to travel with, put in the car/van, and generally just carry around. The fuselage with the two wings attached will fit in a travel bag. 😁
I haven’t tried it yet but how much difference is there between regular, stubby and no stabilizer?

How long did it take you to figure out no stab?


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