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moses 633 vs 590

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nayy
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moses 633 vs 590

Postby nayy » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:35 am

Hi all,

I have a moses 633 with a pocket board and very happy with it...

My brother has a north speedster since 2 seasons, but wants to change his gear this season...

633 is an option but also the more freeride oriented 590. (both with standaard mast and standard tail)
He also wants to ride strapless...

The 590 is probably a bit faster (the 633 is more than fast enough for me) but less agile...

Is there anybody who had ridden both wings and wants to share his thoughts and feelings about both wings ?
(did you ride the 590 strapless ?, the 633 is easy when strapless)

(I know that 'testing' is the best answer... but it is not the moment right now)

On my home spot the 633 is very popular... 90% of the moses foilers are on the 633...

My brother is only 65 kg, so the 590 should also have a good lowend ...

happy foiling to all !

Nayy

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Re: moses 633 VS 590

Postby Foil » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:36 pm

nayy wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:35 am

On my home spot the 633 is very popular...[media] 90% of the moses foilers are on the 633...[/media]

My brother is only 65 kg, so the 590 should also have a good lowend ...

happy foiling to all !

Nayy
many of that 90% will have had the 590 wing maybe,
like me I had the 590 as well, it came out just before the 633, the 590 was a step up from the 550 and 548, nice wing indeed.
but the 633 blew it away, the 633 is not just nice, it's fantastic.
but you know that already, as you use one yourself,
but saying that the 590 is still way better than say the North speedster and many others from back then.
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nayy (Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:51 pm)
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Re: moses 633 VS 590

Postby Adventure Logs » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:57 pm

^^^ agreed. There’s a reason why so many people ride the 633. Have him ride yours and see if he likes it. If not, then begin the search.
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nayy (Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:48 am)
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Re: moses 633 VS 590

Postby grigorib » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:30 am

nayy wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:35 am
Hi all,

I have a moses 633 with a pocket board and very happy with it...

My brother has a north speedster since 2 seasons, but wants to change his gear this season...

633 is an option but also the more freeride oriented 590. (both with standaard mast and standard tail)
He also wants to ride strapless...

The 590 is probably a bit faster (the 633 is more than fast enough for me) but less agile...

Is there anybody who had ridden both wings and wants to share his thoughts and feelings about both wings ?
(did you ride the 590 strapless ?, the 633 is easy when strapless)

(I know that 'testing' is the best answer... but it is not the moment right now)

On my home spot the 633 is very popular... 90% of the moses foilers are on the 633...

My brother is only 65 kg, so the 590 should also have a good lowend ...

happy foiling to all !

Nayy
I've been riding 590 since Jan 2018 and it's an awesome wing, especially if you weigh under 190 lbs. It feels significantly faster than 633 and has less lowend, which you'd expect from a smaller wing. Yet again, at 65 kilos body weight it's a great choice. The fuselage is more compact and you end up with lighter neat setup, compared to surf set.
I've been riding it strapless with 42" and 36" boards. For anyone who's been riding 633, the first couple of rides on 590 might feel a tad weird because you'd need power/speed to get onto the wing, yet when you ride 590 and switch to 633, the later would feel like a Zamboni.

If he opts out for surf setup he should go after 679 wing. 633 for 65 kg of weight would be barely manageable.
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nayy (Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:51 am)
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Re: moses 633 VS 590

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:33 am

I can follow grigorib on this one.

Don't know the 590 myself, but even at my 78 kg I would never choose a 1200 cm2 low AR wing as my one wing for all.

A bit smaller is way more fun IMO.

So at 65 kg the 633 would never be my choice, but something smaller.

Also remember, if you are lighter and choose a smaller wing even with higher AR, it will still be just as, or more lively than the big one :thumb:

8) Peter
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nayy (Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:51 am)
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Re: moses 633 VS 590

Postby Foil » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:03 am

the easy answer to this is of course give him a session on the 633, set up the mast position to suit his weight so he is perfectly set up and ask him to confirm the foot pressure is neutral,
I know many ultra light foilers who much prefer the 633, these are light females who i am referring to of average skill level.
specialist thrill seekers may want to follow a different path with more challenging wingsets, that understandable.

Just like the few guys who say they like the extra liveliness offered up when changing out the 483 standard stab to say the 330 or similar,
I along with many others have tried this combination,
and can confirm not many will think its the way to go, some will, but very few, especially after being confirmed by everyone I have met who have actually tried this.

as your observation above confirms, 90% of moses users at your spot use the 633, that about the same as I see at Flag beach, and of the few who don't own the 633 on their moses kit, have said to me they must get a go on the 633 as everyone raves about them,
the 683(679) is the closest in feel to the 633, but few think its better, maybe one knot or tad more faster, but the stability is less good, aerated white water is a problem as well, sailed in isolation this is less easy to understand, but back to back on the same day in the same conditions its very easy to decide which you prefer, still a very good wing though, and certainly my second choice if I had to choose.
one other point to remember, if your son wants to sail strapless then the 633 offers side float, to keep the board on its side, the 683/679 fails in this on its side floating offering, the rig sinks even on a carbon mast.
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nayy (Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:52 am)
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a99
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Re: moses 633 VS 590

Postby a99 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:19 am

633 is fantastic wing, but only very big minus of it is that its don't sinks (in 90 percents of cases). I have lot of situation when i need hard bodydrag to reach it as it stay side floated. Much much better when wing sinking and going downwind. In all cases less efforts to reach it on downwind than reach floating (of course if you keep kite in air after fall). Interesting that for me 633 feels more rigid in 111 mast than on 91 mast. On 91 i feel more vibration. But of course on 111 you need more drag start to go, not so lively and other foots possition stance.
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nayy (Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:09 pm)
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Re: moses 633 VS 590

Postby Foil » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:26 pm

a99 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:19 am
Interesting that for me 633 feels more rigid in 111 mast than on 91 mast. On 91 i feel more vibration. But of course on 111 you need more drag start to go, not so lively and other foots possition stance.
this is true, in fact I found the 91mast just too soft using the 633, made worse by my 95kg weight, getting up to speed was frustrated by the instability caused by this combination, in turbulent water it felt like the mast was faulty, after asking around the guys who had the 91mast and had changed it for the 101 said they also had the same experience using the 91, something none of us complained about when learning on smaller wings before larger wings became normal, even the 590 gave me the wobbles as I tried to push for speed, the 101 gave me a solid feel, I had the 111 mast but never needed it. so sold it.

Just to add to your thoughts about your son wanting to upgrade his kit,
this reminds me very much of the father and son I met at flag beach early last year, Italians, dad around 50years old son around 18yrs old, both away for a week foiling at flag.
both on Moses kit, son was maybe 35kg lighter than dad, both good foilers but dad was more advanced and liked racing at club level back home,
this is the funny thing about their choice of wings, dad was the bank of dad, son was a student but dad bought him the kit he wanted, 70% of the time Dad used a 633 wing and son used/owned the 683,(679)
but on the more windy days dad borrowed sons 683 to practice his race tacks and speed upwind, he loved chasing me around to see who could go faster, he was faster than me on that wing and he loved it, but he left his son using his 633 for the day, and back on shore his son was always in a strop about dad pinching his wing yet again, his dad explained to me he loves the 683 for club racing as its a better wing for race style tacks, as he falls in more using the 633 when tacking, and as he explained, the less you fall in at club level the more chance of being at the front, he was amused at the mood :angryfire: his son displayed when he was forced to use dads wing, uncool!! :thumb:
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nayy (Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:09 pm)
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grigorib
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Re: moses 633 VS 590

Postby grigorib » Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:43 pm

a99 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:19 am
...feels more rigid in 111 mast than on 91 mast. On 91 i feel more vibration. But of course on 111 you need more drag start to go, not so lively and other foots possition stance.
doesn’t 111 have a wood core and 91 is foam?
That would explain stiffness difference

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Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
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Re: moses 633 VS 590

Postby Foil » Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:43 pm

grigorib wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:43 pm
a99 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:19 am
...feels more rigid in 111 mast than on 91 mast. On 91 i feel more vibration. But of course on 111 you need more drag start to go, not so lively and other foots possition stance.
doesn’t 111 has a wood core and 91 is foam?
That would explain stiffness difference
I don't know about the core of the 101 and 111, but the 91 is defo a foam core, and the 82cm a wood core,
moses used to tell you how many carbon layups each mast has, the 91 was the lowest count, 101 next and 111 even more.

maybe they will change all mast cores to wood in the future, if its better, why not? sounds better.
and my 82cm mast is very stiff and very light at 1464 grm, my 101 weighs in at 1971 grm.

opps! now way off topic, sorry :nono:


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