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Racing on non-IKA equipment

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davesails7
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Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby davesails7 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:43 pm

I was reading through this post viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2405720&start=10 and saw comments about local races preventing non-IKA equipment from entering. I thought IKA restrictions were only enforced at national championships and big international events.

If this has happened to you at a local race, how is it enforced? Do local races really prevent you from starting at all if you have non-IKA equipment? Or would you just lose a protest if someone decided to protest your equipment not meeting the race instructions?

Seems silly for a local race to prevent amateurs on Souls, Hyperlinks, and inflatables from racing. The whole point of local racing is to grow the fleet. No one is going to buy a full quiver of top end race kites before their first race!

This isn't a problem on the US east coast. I don't think there has ever been an IKA-only race on the US east coast.

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Re: Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby juanpasala » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:12 pm

Hi,

I was the one who said that, and actually they dont prevent you from lining up and completing the circuit, but they Disqualify all your results which is frustrating.
It is silly but it is what it is, so we have a lot of people abstaining from participating in these events which results in a smaller fleet and less potential athletes.

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Re: Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby Trent hink » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:50 pm

I don't race and don't want to, but i like to watch. Here in the Tampa/St. Pete area, (west coast of Florida) anyone can participate. Serious racers compete alongside guys who just want to go out and have a good time.

The serious racers always win, but in the end everyone has a good time, and in my point of view, this includes even the spectators.

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Re: Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby davesails7 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:30 pm

Trent hink wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:50 pm
The serious racers always win, but in the end everyone has a good time, and in my point of view, this includes even the spectators.
Yeah, I love coming to St Pete to race. No equipment rules and it's never an issue.

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Re: Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby davesails7 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:33 pm

juanpasala wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:12 pm
Hi,

I was the one who said that, and actually they dont prevent you from lining up and completing the circuit, but they Disqualify all your results which is frustrating.
It is silly but it is what it is, so we have a lot of people abstaining from participating in these events which results in a smaller fleet and less potential athletes.
Any idea why they do it? How big of a fleet do you have?

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Re: Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby windmaker » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:49 am

davesails7 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:33 pm
juanpasala wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:12 pm
Hi,

I was the one who said that, and actually they dont prevent you from lining up and completing the circuit, but they Disqualify all your results which is frustrating.
It is silly but it is what it is, so we have a lot of people abstaining from participating in these events which results in a smaller fleet and less potential athletes.
Any idea why they do it? How big of a fleet do you have?
Doesn't make sense, popular non IKA registered kites such as Capa, Halo, Hyperlink or Soul are freeride kites and considered inferior in pure racing performance, in fact a disadvantage for racing so why disqualify?

I always love it when someone wins a race on "inferior " equipment purely on skills and tactics :D .

Now, if someone is using a non-registered racing kite, that's a different story.

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Re: Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby davesails7 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:51 pm

windmaker wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:49 am
Now, if someone is using a non-registered racing kite, that's a different story.
Yeah, I don't know that there is one solution that works for everything. The recent hydrofoil pro tour event has no equipment rules, and was won on a prototype VMG 2 and prototype Levitaz foil (I think?). It would be tough to be a top racer and get beat by equipment that no one can buy.

That's not really an issue for local races though. The biggest issue for keeping local races fair has been limited access to some of the top foils due to long wait lists. They were IKA registered, but you couldn't buy one, so what's the point?

When the IKA rules first came out, I thought it would slow the arms race and keep prices under control. I think the advances in kites have slowed somewhat on it's own, but the prices are rising out of control. Race kites are twice as expensive as when they came out 5 years ago!

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Re: Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby derek440 » Fri May 01, 2020 2:49 am

Yeah on the world scene IKA have one equipment limited tour (formula kite), and one with any equipment. Also HFPT - by the riders for the riders has any kit you like. Formula rules limit equipment based around a "quad" or four year block ending with an Olympic games. In Australia at our local races you can ride with anything but at the national titles if you don't run IKA registered gear you can still ride but won't get the points/placing in national titles - which I think counts towards some international stuff, like the world beach games/Olympics/regional titles. So the point is to limit the arms race with prototype gear, but free-ride gear can get caught up in this, but generally your local club should still count your points in your local races and almost without fail this won't stop you racing.

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Re: Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby longwhitecloud » Fri May 01, 2020 3:59 am

Potential arms race? That is not really the truth. Many sailing classes have ways to limit cost entry not using these purely business tactics.

Ever read this? IKA "Retail price in excess of the average retail prize +50% of all equipment of the same type registered during the applicable application period."

Designed to prevent affordable racing equipment, the exact opposite of IOCs recommendations. $ Talks. Stops brands like Pansh becoming involved (plus they have to pay 2500 euros to even attempt to register 5 kite sizes - partly goes to world sailing).

You can see that price fixing super high by the current brands can be used to prevent more affordable brands from being able to compete whatsoever.


$20 000 in equipment (3 vmg kites and bar and lines. -top foil and spares set) to even be in with a change of a top position.

The IKA and its promises/ tactics have been incredibly unfair to countries that signed up in the hope of growing the sport for youth, the promised affordability, and 3rd world country inclusion.

Guess what? That is because some kiteboarders decided to let foreigners from a completely different sport tell them what they can and cannot - even contribute $ towards another sport. The result: A class based sport - what sailing always has been, and what kiteboarding maybe was but to to a hugely lesser extent.

Pansh 21m kite only $499 US
Flysurfer VMG 21m kite only $2900 US

One is 580% more expensive than the other.

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Re: Racing on non-IKA equipment

Postby evan » Fri May 01, 2020 7:14 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:59 am
Potential arms race? That is not really the truth. Many sailing classes have ways to limit cost entry not using these purely business tactics.

Ever read this? IKA "Retail price in excess of the average retail prize +50% of all equipment of the same type registered during the applicable application period."

Designed to prevent affordable racing equipment, the exact opposite of IOCs recommendations. $ Talks. Stops brands like Pansh becoming involved (plus they have to pay 2500 euros to even attempt to register 5 kite sizes - partly goes to world sailing).

You can see that price fixing super high by the current brands can be used to prevent more affordable brands from being able to compete whatsoever.


$20 000 in equipment (3 vmg kites and bar and lines. -top foil and spares set) to even be in with a change of a top position.

The IKA and its promises/ tactics have been incredibly unfair to countries that signed up in the hope of growing the sport for youth, the promised affordability, and 3rd world country inclusion.

Guess what? That is because some kiteboarders decided to let foreigners from a completely different sport tell them what they can and cannot - even contribute $ towards another sport. The result: A class based sport - what sailing always has been, and what kiteboarding maybe was but to to a hugely lesser extent.

Pansh 21m kite only $499 US
Flysurfer VMG 21m kite only $2900 US

One is 580% more expensive than the other.
Nothing stopped Pansh from registering a kite that they can offer for less than half the price. Would it be competitive, who knows?


But have you considered the consequences of no registration and production control at all? That would be the F1 equivalent of kiting where the richest counties would pour millions into designing a one-off kite that no one else can copy, let alone buy. Where the final design is introduced on the Olympic race day itself. Good luck with your off the shelf VMG against that....

Oh, and even with the registered production the rich countries are going to buy dozens of sets to cherry pick the kite that has a 0.5% advantage over the rest due to small production differences. Also putting poor countries at a disadvantage that can only afford 1 set. This is already happening with the one design classes.

3rd world countries will always be at a disadvantage unless there is a highly controlled budget cap, but even then there will always be gaps in the regulations that can be exploited when you have enough money to throw at it.


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