How much more relaxed can it get with a modern foil?

[MartinO]

I am an experienced kiteboarder (20 years), but a beginner at foiling. I have a Slingshot NF2 foil from 2017 with the standard H5 wing. Not sure about the specs on that since Slingshot strangely enough don´t seem to provide it. However, the front wing is a lot smaller than many of today´s beginner options. I manage to ride on the foil now after some sessions, but I have a hard time finding a relaxed balance and so far it is more of a struggle than an enjoyment. Ofcourse, more training is needed, but still, the development in the hydrofoil market is moving fast. How much easier is it to learn/be a beginner foiler on a bigger, more modern wing? Since the HoverGlide system allows for easy change of the front wing, it´s no huge investment to get a bigger front wing. My main objective with learning to foil is to use it in light wind kitesurfing, so I will still need/want a lightwind setup in the future.

[jumptheshark]

Pretty big difference,

With a little time you will start to relax until it’s no more work than standing on any other board.

A bigger wing is much easier to learn transitions and foot switches which will also in time become second nature.

I totally remember the tense legs!

[irwe]

What will help you progress faster.

Shorter mast (50 - 60 cm)
Bigger Front Wing
Practice balance for Muscle Memory (ie. Stand on foot pedals (parallel) of Stationary bike with hands in air, Bongo board, TT on Bosu ball)
When riding HF concentrate on putting weight on your big front toe
Watch as many HF learning videos as you can

[Peter_Frank]

Actually it is "time" that matters regarding your specific question

You will be equally tense on any wing, when learning.

Of course transitions etc might be a lot easier on a bigger wing, and also the very first times you manage to get up foiling - but riding relaxed is not depending on the wing.
And here a shorter mast dont help either, on the contrary, a bit worse as you risk popping out of the water a lot, so you have to be REALLY tense and careful not to touch down nor pop out.


In general it might help, agree, but regarding how much more relaxed it can get "just riding" - it is YOU who need a lot more time on the water.
Not longer sessions, but you being out for a long period, slowly getting muscle memory to remember

Meaning in half a year or a year, you will be able to foil relaxed on any wing (at least if the mast is not too short)

If you asked about how easy it would be to make transitions, it is different, but being relaxed it is like when learning one simply can not get how it would EVER be possible to relax, but it will come over time

Peter

[jumptheshark]

Your right Peter, but I definitely feel that a bigger wing helps too. It’s just easier to relax when you can ride around at a slower pace. My first 535 square cm wing had to be going much faster at all times, which made it much more intimidating to learn and relax. Not only can you ride at a slower pace, the balance point is larger above a bigger wing so it’s just easier to settle into a relaxed stance.

Once you have it down, yes you can relax on a smaller wing, but a bigger easier wing will speed up the process.

P.S. your opinion is requested in a thread in the foil kite forum.

[MartinO]

Actually it is "time" that matters regarding your specific question

You will be equally tense on any wing, when learning.

Of course transitions etc might be a lot easier on a bigger wing, and also the very first times you manage to get up foiling - but riding relaxed is not depending on the wing.
And here a shorter mast dont help either, on the contrary, a bit worse as you risk popping out of the water a lot, so you have to be REALLY tense and careful not to touch down nor pop out.


In general it might help, agree, but regarding how much more relaxed it can get "just riding" - it is YOU who need a lot more time on the water.
Not longer sessions, but you being out for a long period, slowly getting muscle memory to remember

Meaning in half a year or a year, you will be able to foil relaxed on any wing (at least if the mast is not too short)

If you asked about how easy it would be to make transitions, it is different, but being relaxed it is like when learning one simply can not get how it would EVER be possible to relax, but it will come over time

Peter

Thanks for your opinions. Hmm... I was hoping for an answer like "IT´S A HUUUGE DIFFERENCE, LIKE NIGHT AND DAY!!!" so that I could have bought my way to success Atleast no revolution then.

Then I´ll keep practicing with my NF2 for a while more and see if I can find the balance with what I have. Yesterday I managed to hit a rock at the bottom by pushing down the tail of the board to deep in a water start in chest deep water, and then I felt pretty good about having the old cheap wing for sure... Handling and keeping the foil away from getting dinged and scratched also takes some practice. It´s hard to even put it in the car.

[Peter_Frank]

A good idea Martin, keep it an learn to ride "relaxed" - trust me, you WILL be able to do this.

Then either sooner or later you can get a bigger wing for easier transitions and lighter wind, and you will most likely also be able to get closer to your final foil now, as you got more experience and might know "what" you want to do (race, jump, wave, freestyle, just floating around slow, or fast etc)

But as said, the "impossible to relax at all" feel we all get the first long time when learning, is not really changed with wingsize IMO (only if there is something wrong with your foil)

Peter

[purdyd]

I am an experienced kiteboarder (20 years), but a beginner at foiling. I have a Slingshot NF2 foil from 2017 with the standard H5 wing. Not sure about the specs on that since Slingshot strangely enough don´t seem to provide it. However, the front wing is a lot smaller than many of today´s beginner options. I manage to ride on the foil now after some sessions, but I have a hard time finding a relaxed balance and so far it is more of a struggle than an enjoyment. Ofcourse, more training is needed, but still, the development in the hydrofoil market is moving fast. How much easier is it to learn/be a beginner foiler on a bigger, more modern wing? Since the HoverGlide system allows for easy change of the front wing, it´s no huge investment to get a bigger front wing. My main objective with learning to foil is to use it in light wind kitesurfing, so I will still need/want a lightwind setup in the future.

The h5 is the time code 57 and has an area of 707 cm2

This is pretty small by today’s standards, especially for learning. Oddly enough I think it is a great wing for your very first few times on the water where you taxi or do short glides.

Something like the space skate at 1504 cm2 is much easier to be comfortable on as you can go much slower and also has a much lower top end so doesn’t run away from you,

I think the infinity 76 at 1534 cm2 might be a better wing than the space skate as it is reportedly a bit faster.

I believe the new slingshot hover-glide package comes with the space skate and a 28” mast. That’s a much better all around package for learning.

An alien air with the 15” mast and the h5 wing is a great first step. But once you can get short glides, I would switch to a bigger front wing and longer mast, 24” and then 30”. It will be much easier.

Basically follow the slingshot academy progression.

My only caveat would be I had some difficulty learning to gybe on the space skate. It wasn’t until I went to a surfier smaller all carbon setup that I figured gybing out.

Good luck!

[purdyd]

Thanks for your opinions. Hmm... I was hoping for an answer like "IT´S A HUUUGE DIFFERENCE, LIKE NIGHT AND DAY!!!" so that I could have bought my way to success Atleast no revolution then.

Then I´ll keep practicing with my NF2 for a while more and see if I can find the balance with what I have. Yesterday I managed to hit a rock at the bottom by pushing down the tail of the board to deep in a water start in chest deep water, and then I felt pretty good about having the old cheap wing for sure... Handling and keeping the foil away from getting dinged and scratched also takes some practice. It´s hard to even put it in the car.

Don’t let anyone tell you different there is a huge difference between the h5 and H4 space skate.

The H5 is great for learning how to carry the foil, handle it in the water, and taxi, but the H4 and the like is way easier to get up on and keep going.

I’ve seen some great deals on them, new and used, and. Ride engine is the same as slingshot and I thought I saw some killer deals on the equivalent ride engine version.

Beat the hell out it, they are tough and cheap, when you get comfortable on top of your board in a straight line, maybe consider something else.

Sure the guys who started foiling 4 years or more ago will tell you to stick with the H5, that’s the size they learned on. Don’t make it hard on yourself,

Definitely there are people who in 30 minutes can figure it out on any foil, for the rest of us, make it easy on yourself.

[kitexpert]

Yes, there is bigger differences between foil wings than probably in anything in kite sports. With big wing you can ride very slowly so feel of ride and crashes are not nearly as intimidating. Big wing lifts you up immediately or with less kite input, it is slower to change height and it also can be more stable in sideways.

So in short: take a 1200-1500cm2 wing and it will be much easier. Short mast but not under 60cm makes handling of it easier and you can practice in chest deep water which makes recovering from crashes faster and easier. If shorter than 60cm controlling height takes too much effort