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IKA SNAFU

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NEkitesurfing
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Re: IKA SNAFU

Postby NEkitesurfing » Fri May 08, 2020 12:36 pm

What is the IKA asking for exactly?

Is there somebody that could share the list from the IKA with all the requirements for the registration process? Would be nice as well if someone from IKA could give a comment.

A foil is a subtle product and very small changes can make a huge difference. To make sure that registered foils from the same brand perform the same full geometry data and the material composition are necessary. Both data sets have to be frozen and there has to be the possibility to check any deviation randomly. Could be done with a 3D Scanner and vibration analysis.
If there is no way to control that two registered foils, same model, same brand are identical the whole registration makes no sense.

Personally I would prefer the open class. As far as I know in the cycling disciplines of the Olympic Games the athletes could use the latests models of bicycles. Every athlete can use the bicycle that works best for him. As the athletes have different bodies and body geometries I think that this is more fair.

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Re: IKA SNAFU

Postby Toby » Fri May 08, 2020 12:53 pm

Either open or one design.
Anything else doesn’t make sense.

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Re: IKA SNAFU

Postby longwhitecloud » Fri May 08, 2020 1:17 pm

NEkitesurfing wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:36 pm
What is the IKA asking for exactly?

Is there somebody that could share the list from the IKA with all the requirements for the registration process? Would be nice as well if someone from IKA could give a comment.

A foil is a subtle product and very small changes can make a huge difference. To make sure that registered foils from the same brand perform the same full geometry data and the material composition are necessary. Both data sets have to be frozen and there has to be the possibility to check any deviation randomly. Could be done with a 3D Scanner and vibration analysis.
If there is no way to control that two registered foils, same model, same brand are identical the whole registration makes no sense.

Personally I would prefer the open class. As far as I know in the cycling disciplines of the Olympic Games the athletes could use the latests models of bicycles. Every athlete can use the bicycle that works best for him. As the athletes have different bodies and body geometries I think that this is more fair.
A single pursuit bike in the olympics can cost $160 000. Just another giant wank fest money grabbing, look at my bike festival. -doing it for my country (cos they pay me and expect a medal).

The idea is to be getting away from this rubbish. Put me on a line with you at the start of the 100m and we will know who won. Put me and you on bikes with big variations, of kiting kit with fairly big variations for that matter - who knows who really was the best athlete.

It has infected kiteboarding and never needed to.

Who ever wants to turn up to a race where the kit you can afford has a big influence over who wins. It's garbage. Ooo look at me, how fast i go... on my $20 000 worth of kit that will be worth $1000 in 4 years.

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Re: IKA SNAFU

Postby bigcane » Fri May 08, 2020 2:04 pm

I think it is a complex issue with alot of nuance. most Olympic sports are moving away from one design / single provider monopoly - as you get monopoly prices and still alot of variance in the product due to lax manufacturing. so team s with money buy lots of sets of the gear and then pick the best ones. I think the windsurfers have had a bad experience with one design in the past. Plus it does not seem legal under the EU commercial competition rules.

Open class is an all out arms race with top riders having to buy new gear every few months and only a few can get access to the very best stuff like MikesLab - nobody wants that in the Olympic struture. But open class works fine for other series like the HFPT (which I think is a great oganisation) and for local race series mostly with weekend racers.

And so it seems the IKA have come up with the current hybrid system for the Olympics. Design freeze over a 4 year period to limit the arms race but also open to various manufacturers to register their gear to help prevent monopoly pricing. But half the technology and design that makes a foil really good goes on inside the hydrofoil (ie max stiffness in all the right places). And so the IKA wants to stop manufacturers from continuing to improve their product on the inside during the 4 year freeze period so that it is fair to everyone. they want to do this by getting a baseline of how foils are manufatured now at registration in case they need to compare to how the same foil is being built 2 and 4 years from now.

Not saying I agree that this is the best way forward but the IKA approach does have some logic. And while I understand that the secret manufacturing information given to IKA is supposed to be confidential, it can of course leak out which would be very damaging to the race foil market leader MikesLab - so I can understand why MikesLab does not want to give it up
These users thanked the author bigcane for the post (total 2):
windmaker (Fri May 08, 2020 2:51 pm) • TomW (Fri May 08, 2020 6:57 pm)
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Re: IKA SNAFU

Postby Toby » Fri May 08, 2020 2:48 pm

Thx for the info, now it makes more sense.

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Re: IKA SNAFU

Postby windmaker » Fri May 08, 2020 2:50 pm

Well said bigcan but you can't stop progress and other manufacturers will soon catch up or come up with new or better solutions and in a few years what is a secret now will be common knowledge or obsolete. It happens in all trades. ML could be left with a "has been" design and no Olympics (not that I care personally about the latest).

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Re: IKA SNAFU

Postby juanpasala » Fri May 08, 2020 3:08 pm

windmaker wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:50 pm
Well said bigcan but you can't stop progress and other manufacturers will soon catch up or come up with new or better solutions and in a few years what is a secret now will be common knowledge or obsolete. It happens in all trades. ML could be left with a "has been" design and no Olympics (not that I care personally about the latest).
That is precisely why there is an Open class pro tour, where riders and manufacturesrs will be able to keep on tweaking equipment as much as they want.
I think the solution the IKA came up with for the Olimpics is a fair one for the riders, you get a list of options, and decide on whatever you think will suit you more.
And that stops the current nonsense where if you want to be competitive you have to be on a list for an entire year, buy 3 or 4 pieces of the same equipment, try them and hope you ll get a mast with no ventilarion, whereas the brand riders get special built ones that have no issues.

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Re: IKA SNAFU

Postby drsurf » Fri May 08, 2020 3:35 pm

Toby wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:48 pm
Thx for the info, now it makes more sense.
:thumb: :thumb:


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