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15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 2024

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Smartarse88
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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby Smartarse88 » Thu May 07, 2020 4:35 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:02 am
geokite wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:15 pm
I could not find any reference to exclusion of a brand for having prices too low, only if too high (from a couple pages into https://www.kiteclasses.org/equipmentregofoilkites)

"Criteria leading to the decision not to recommend a builder to World Sailing for licensing include:
...
Retail price in excess of the average retail prize +50% of all equipment of the same type registered during the applicable application period."
I am wrong, I must have misread it?! Sorry.

Affordable kite racing isnt arriving any time soon though.

Minimum 50 pieces per equipment/model/size per month = 350 a month (7 sizes) = 4200 kites a year. 3500 Euros registration.

It is a crying shame because sailing classes have things like the optimist that see some of the biggest fleets and are super affordable. 4200 kites a year for a single brand model ? am I misreading this too - it seems this will result in a small "club" of brands with no entry for others.

There are ways of making kite racing so much more affordable, but clearly $ is the main motive...olympic funding always brings those business people out that talk of inclusion, youth participation, 3rd world participation, affordablity - when they lobby, but once thought the door it is all about protecting an income.

A shame. Kiteboarding has such a high performance ratio to equipment cost at the lower end.

Kite racing has become like SUP racing became before it died, a high reliance on equipment performance and at a high cost, not the athlete, and hence very few young riders coming through, and so it ends.
You have misread slightly. The manufacturer doesn't have to be producing all of those kites (for stock) - but must be able to if the demand is there. Its the same in other sports and allows the entire field to get equipment in the space of months.

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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby TomW » Thu May 07, 2020 8:06 pm

Optimist dingys are one design, low tech by design, hence less expensive.
You want least expensive accessible racing? The authority could have a one design competition. Box rule that reduces need for expensive manufacturing and materials.
Foil and mast, maximum 1000€. Kites 3 or 4 sizes, maximum cost 1000 € each. Make that the Olympic class for at least 2 cycles. That would guarantee a market and accessibility.

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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby HugoMC » Thu May 07, 2020 8:29 pm

TomW wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:06 pm
Optimist dingys are one design, low tech by design, hence less expensive.
You want least expensive accessible racing? The authority could have a one design competition. Box rule that reduces need for expensive manufacturing and materials.
Foil and mast, maximum 1000€. Kites 3 or 4 sizes, maximum cost 1000 € each. Make that the Olympic class for at least 2 cycles. That would guarantee a market and accessibility.
Laser Radial would be a better comparison. 7.5k dollars for a brand new boat all in..... Very affordable.

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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby longwhitecloud » Fri May 08, 2020 1:03 am

HugoMC wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:29 pm
TomW wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:06 pm
Optimist dingys are one design, low tech by design, hence less expensive.
You want least expensive accessible racing? The authority could have a one design competition. Box rule that reduces need for expensive manufacturing and materials.
Foil and mast, maximum 1000€. Kites 3 or 4 sizes, maximum cost 1000 € each. Make that the Olympic class for at least 2 cycles. That would guarantee a market and accessibility.
Laser Radial would be a better comparison. 7.5k dollars for a brand new boat all in..... Very affordable.
Why do you think that?


A laser radial hull alone is 60kg ($6500) of fibreglass and resin - A reasonable entry foil board and foil is 8kg of fibreglass and resin max ($2500 - possible to be far less)


Laser radial components cost as much as multiple kites. (egsail is $1000, they use composite masts that cost $2000. centreboard & rudder $1000 each)


The priority isnt kiteboarding, it is $. And the clause about manufacturing ability is how to keep the old boys club going, and keep the money flowing - only into these brands & IKA/World Sailing.

When you think there is going to be a magic cash cow giving you money in the future with no more competition for your business , people blindly follow.

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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby juanpasala » Fri May 08, 2020 5:15 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:03 am
HugoMC wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:29 pm
TomW wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:06 pm
Optimist dingys are one design, low tech by design, hence less expensive.
You want least expensive accessible racing? The authority could have a one design competition. Box rule that reduces need for expensive manufacturing and materials.
Foil and mast, maximum 1000€. Kites 3 or 4 sizes, maximum cost 1000 € each. Make that the Olympic class for at least 2 cycles. That would guarantee a market and accessibility.
Laser Radial would be a better comparison. 7.5k dollars for a brand new boat all in..... Very affordable.
Why do you think that?


A laser radial hull alone is 60kg ($6500) of fibreglass and resin - A reasonable entry foil board and foil is 8kg of fibreglass and resin max ($2500 - possible to be far less)


Laser radial components cost as much as multiple kites. (egsail is $1000, they use composite masts that cost $2000. centreboard & rudder $1000 each)


The priority isnt kiteboarding, it is $. And the clause about manufacturing ability is how to keep the old boys club going, and keep the money flowing - only into these brands & IKA/World Sailing.

When you think there is going to be a magic cash cow giving you money in the future with no more competition for your business , people blindly follow.
Nope, manufacturing ability clause is there to allow everyone who want to purchase, ride and train on any specific piece of equipment to be able to do so without having to go on a waiting list or to be close friends or sponsored by the manufacturer

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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby jakemoore » Fri May 08, 2020 7:06 pm

Nobody is going to become a billionaire selling hydrofoils, kites, Lasers, 420s or any other equipment to meet IOC specification.

Competitors who are serious contenders will have the budget of national teams to buy equipment.

Training and travel will continue to be one of the biggest expenses in fielding a team.

Club cycling and sailing will always be fun even if you don’t have the official gear. Hopefully kiteboarding will still be fun too.

I just can’t see the problem here.

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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby OzBungy » Sat May 09, 2020 5:31 am

It's absurd placing rules on kite foil racing to meet IOC rules. The market is too small and it's not possible for a single manufacturer or country to simply outspend all the other countries to get an unfair advantage.

We want people to innovate and develop new and better products.

The current gear is already too expensive for some poor kid in a third world country to buy, but it's also far cheaper than any other form of high performance racing sailing.

If you need any rules, maybe a "box" rule to make everything more or less the same size, and possibly a market availability rule where anybody can buy the stuff.

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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby drsurf » Sat May 09, 2020 11:22 am

I don't get the problem here. If you want to race with the people who have unlimited resources for the latest high tech gear then you'll have to match them or have some kind of physical advantage.

If you want to race at the Olympic level you'll have to do what everyone else does and be good enough to gain the support of your country who'll assist you with equipment, training etc. Remember the purpose of Olympic competition is to make sure the equipment is as standardised as possible so that it's the skill and athleticism of the athlete that wins. That has always meant that in a fast changing discipline like kitesurfing and windsurfing, Olympic equipment can end up not being representative of the sport outside the Olympics. That's just how it is if the Olympics are your thing. It's a 4 year process, it would be different if the Olympics was an annual event.

If you want to race with affordable gear, get together with others who want to do the same and have fun. I know a few places in Australia where kite foilers have done just that. It doesn't matter your skill or gear, you can easily equalise that with good handicapping.

So stop whingeing. If you feel there is a problem figure out a solution with other like minded people. longwhitecloud you could be asking on this forum for others to join you in whatever competitive format you feel is good. Instead it's just a litany of complaints about other people and organisations. You're just making it sound like the problem is you. Get over it and put forward some positive solutions that would be supported by others.

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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat May 09, 2020 1:48 pm

drsurf wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:22 am
I don't get the problem here. If you want to race with the people who have unlimited resources for the latest high tech gear then you'll have to match them or have some kind of physical advantage.

If you want to race at the Olympic level you'll have to do what everyone else does and be good enough to gain the support of your country who'll assist you with equipment, training etc. Remember the purpose of Olympic competition is to make sure the equipment is as standardised as possible so that it's the skill and athleticism of the athlete that wins. That has always meant that in a fast changing discipline like kitesurfing and windsurfing, Olympic equipment can end up not being representative of the sport outside the Olympics. That's just how it is if the Olympics are your thing. It's a 4 year process, it would be different if the Olympics was an annual event.

If you want to race with affordable gear, get together with others who want to do the same and have fun. I know a few places in Australia where kite foilers have done just that. It doesn't matter your skill or gear, you can easily equalise that with good handicapping.

So stop whingeing. If you feel there is a problem figure out a solution with other like minded people. longwhitecloud you could be asking on this forum for others to join you in whatever competitive format you feel is good. Instead it's just a litany of complaints about other people and organisations. You're just making it sound like the problem is you. Get over it and put forward some positive solutions that would be supported by others.
An optimist direction. Measured in equipment with weight, dimension, safety and materials limits.

To make it affordable with regards to youth, 3rd world countries and just the general kiters out there.

The same with so many other newly olympic sports - often the same story. Sniff the $, in comes the greed.. low an behold a sport is twisted into something it never was.

Same stories:

Rollerskating organisation bids to becomes skateboarding IOC representative.

Canoeing organisation bids to become exclusive IOC SUP representative.

Sailing organisation bids to become exclusive IOC kiteboarding representative.

Cycling organisation bids to become exclusive IOC BMX representative.

All these grassroots sports already had their own organisation; however, the vultures jumped in having never done anything for these other sports in all of history - well until the sniff of olympic funding!

We all have to put up with the same shit and it's good to educate people about this so there can be positive change because there is nothing positive about one girl turning up for a national championships.

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Re: 15 Manufacturers Advance To Factory Inspections In IKA Formula Kite Registered Series Production Scheme For Paris 20

Postby drsurf » Sat May 09, 2020 1:57 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:48 pm
drsurf wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:22 am
I don't get the problem here. If you want to race with the people who have unlimited resources for the latest high tech gear then you'll have to match them or have some kind of physical advantage.

If you want to race at the Olympic level you'll have to do what everyone else does and be good enough to gain the support of your country who'll assist you with equipment, training etc. Remember the purpose of Olympic competition is to make sure the equipment is as standardised as possible so that it's the skill and athleticism of the athlete that wins. That has always meant that in a fast changing discipline like kitesurfing and windsurfing, Olympic equipment can end up not being representative of the sport outside the Olympics. That's just how it is if the Olympics are your thing. It's a 4 year process, it would be different if the Olympics was an annual event.

If you want to race with affordable gear, get together with others who want to do the same and have fun. I know a few places in Australia where kite foilers have done just that. It doesn't matter your skill or gear, you can easily equalise that with good handicapping.

So stop whingeing. If you feel there is a problem figure out a solution with other like minded people. longwhitecloud you could be asking on this forum for others to join you in whatever competitive format you feel is good. Instead it's just a litany of complaints about other people and organisations. You're just making it sound like the problem is you. Get over it and put forward some positive solutions that would be supported by others.
An optimist direction. Measured in equipment with weight, dimension, safety and materials limits.

To make it affordable with regards to youth, 3rd world countries and just the general kiters out there.

The same with so many other newly olympic sports - often the same story. Sniff the $, in comes the greed.. low an behold a sport is twisted into something it never was.

Same stories:

Rollerskating organisation bids to becomes skateboarding IOC representative.

Canoeing organisation bids to become exclusive IOC SUP representative.

Sailing organisation bids to become exclusive IOC kiteboarding representative.

Cycling organisation bids to become exclusive IOC BMX representative.

All these grassroots sports already had their own organisation; however, the vultures jumped in having never done anything for these other sports in all of history - well until the sniff of olympic funding!

We all have to put up with the same shit and it's good to educate people about this so there can be positive change because there is nothing positive about one girl turning up for a national championships.
Oh boo-hoo. Grow up and stop complaining. If you don't like it do something else. The Olympics is not compulsory you know.
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