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The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

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Horst Sergio
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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat May 16, 2020 7:35 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:45 am
Unhooked kite wave foiling.

Legend!
Indeed, feels like a dream becomes true :wink:
Image
Maybe it is also a relevant point to ride the combination with a mono to be more manuverable but can't remember to have ever tried unhooked with a stabi ... feels like years ago.

But it is all the same with the wing just try to imagine anybody would hook into a wing on a wave, doesn't make sense as for the kite to me.
As with the kite I just use the harness to go upwind ... if any.
vlcsnap-2020-05-16-12h13m46s290.png
Oh and there is another small surprise about unhooked on kite and foil, I am actually no more sure if a jibe is easier hooked, maybe not.

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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby TomW » Sat May 16, 2020 10:36 pm

Today I was out in 2m + waves and 23 -31 knots wind side on winds. Concept Air Wave 4,5m and gong M pro foil. Perfect setup. I could ride in any direction, straight downwind riding wave, 30 km/ hr and the kite just drifts. I didn't have to care about it. Just before pulling out of the wave, I'd just redirect to get power. My friend on Peak 3m doing the same. Other 2 friends on SST 4m couldn't drift kite as well and they would slack out, over take the kite and fall off the foil.
The waves were traveling in same direction as the wind.

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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby marekmk » Sun May 17, 2020 8:41 am

I have the 4m wasp.........I did not want to buy it as almost every one was sharing to go bigger. Only one person, who I have a lot of respect for said you will not regret it... go 4m wasp. this wing creates so much power because its so sold in holding its shape when there is no choice but to pump the kite in low winds............

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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby slowboat » Sun May 17, 2020 11:39 am

TomW wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:36 pm
Today I was out in 2m + waves and 23 -31 knots wind side on winds. Concept Air Wave 4,5m and gong M pro foil. Perfect setup. I could ride in any direction, straight downwind riding wave, 30 km/ hr and the kite just drifts. I didn't have to care about it. Just before pulling out of the wave, I'd just redirect to get power. My friend on Peak 3m doing the same. Other 2 friends on SST 4m couldn't drift kite as well and they would slack out, over take the kite and fall off the foil.
The waves were traveling in same direction as the wind.
I am having a heard time understanding how a kiter traveling at greater than or equal to the speed of a 2+ meter wave, in 23-31 knots of wind can ride in ANY direction WITHOUT line tension. It cannot be done. The apparent wind created on the kite in those conditions is massive and will result in line tension in most riding directions. That line tension is pulling the rider...he is not freely surfing the wave. Yes, it might be possible in these conditions to drift a kite but that is only while riding in a very limited direction. Turn your hips a few degrees and you will get line tension. Complete freedom of movement to surf (travel only by wave energy) a decent sized wave with a hydrofoil can be done by tow-in, prone paddle, SUP or wing but not a kite.

There is no denying that what you describe is high performance wave kitefoiling but the kite limits your freedom to surf a wave.

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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby jumptheshark » Sun May 17, 2020 12:48 pm

Even standard wave kites afford pretty decent freedom of movement on a wave. I can well imagine unhooking with an ultra drift kite like the peak would feel every bit as free as having to hold a wing in one hand.

Stripped down a bar with a trim cleat and chicken loop last night and swapped my slider for a harness hook. Now waiting patiently on wind to join Sergio at unhooked foiling.

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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby tomtom » Sun May 17, 2020 3:16 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:48 pm
I can well imagine unhooking with an ultra drift kite like the peak would feel every bit as free as having to hold a wing in one hand.
Unfortunately its not. You cant go straight downwind faster than wind. No kite will fly it that condition. Peaks are just a kites that fly with minimum wind gradient on that course. But still just kites. Look at how on many WW foiling videos wing are flared behind rider - indicating that they are riding faster than wind.

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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby jakemoore » Sun May 17, 2020 3:49 pm

tomtom wrote:

Unfortunately its not. You cant go straight downwind faster than wind. .... Look at how on many WW foiling videos wing are flared behind rider - indicating that they are riding faster than wind.
Not for long anyway. I caught a pretty decent wave on the 11m peak in light winds. It was serene until the kite ended up straight upwind of me and pulled me right off the back, crumpled into a ball and fell into the breaking waves.

These wings are looking pretty sweet for wave riding. Alas I want a smaller board more than I want a bigger one.

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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby jumptheshark » Sun May 17, 2020 5:14 pm

I suppose it comes down to wind and wave speed.

I don't ride in under 10 knots.... There are NO waves here in those conditions. Need sustained 12 for a few hours to start getting some rollers. No ground swell.

Have yet to see a wing around here and am interested to see how long it takes. Have a local guy on an E-foil and a local on windfoil, but no wing yet.

I bet there are places with ground swell that would highlight the wings strong suit, but I'll chase the kite side of wave foiling for now.

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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby TomW » Sun May 17, 2020 6:49 pm

slowboat wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:39 am
TomW wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:36 pm
Today I was out in 2m + waves and 23 -31 knots wind side on winds. Concept Air Wave 4,5m and gong M pro foil. Perfect setup. I could ride in any direction, straight downwind riding wave, 30 km/ hr and the kite just drifts. I didn't have to care about it. Just before pulling out of the wave, I'd just redirect to get power. My friend on Peak 3m doing the same. Other 2 friends on SST 4m couldn't drift kite as well and they would slack out, over take the kite and fall off the foil.
The waves were traveling in same direction as the wind.
I am having a heard time understanding how a kiter traveling at greater than or equal to the speed of a 2+ meter wave, in 23-31 knots of wind can ride in ANY direction WITHOUT line tension. It cannot be done. The apparent wind created on the kite in those conditions is massive and will result in line tension in most riding directions. That line tension is pulling the rider...he is not freely surfing the wave. Yes, it might be possible in these conditions to drift a kite but that is only while riding in a very limited direction. Turn your hips a few degrees and you will get line tension. Complete freedom of movement to surf (travel only by wave energy) a decent sized wave with a hydrofoil can be done by tow-in, prone paddle, SUP or wing but not a kite.

There is no denying that what you describe is high performance wave kitefoiling but the kite limits your freedom to surf a wave.
I agree with you. Any direction except straight downwind there will be line tension. But here the waves rarely " line up" and peel off. They are wind waves a d to get an extended ride you have to go almost straight downwind. Yesterday I was doing 30-35km/ hr straight downwind on a wave, the kite drifting with very little line tension, I couldn't lean on it. The wind is going 45-55 km/ hr, so there's some apparent wind left.

Later I drove south and watched a guy wing foil on 2m waves way outside. He looked like he was having fun. Falling a lot but getting some long rides. Conditions like this are rare.

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Re: The reason to wing. Can't do this with a kite

Postby kit3surfer » Mon May 18, 2020 9:59 am

I Think it Comes down to wind Speed and direction - and direction the waves are rolling and if you are Surfing real swell heading towards the shores or riding outside windwaves (which roll in the direction of the wind).
And it also Comes down to rider weight and Fitness grade. So, if you are for example a heavy rider 90 Kg and have only 15 Kts of wind, you Need a very big board to get up (unless you are Pretty fit and Train very often) and a big wing (6m at least). And that's the Point where it starts to be as annoying as having to Redirect constantly a kite.
In my opinion the freedom is the same.
Problem with wings is that Surfing at higher winds (25Kts +) and straight onshore is not possible to let go the wing behind you - wind will be pushed by the wing Always to your back.
By the way, upwind ability and the fact to waste less Energy with a harness makes kitefoiling waves more atracting.
Personally I also disliked the fact having constantly this wing Looking at and not seeing what was going around - compared to kitfoiling (but Maybe this feels different if you have a Windsurfing Background).
… but in the perfect sideshore conditions and good skills - I also believe that "winging" brings more surf sensations.
ALL in ALL, you can conclude to the Point to say it's a different Sport like Windfoiling. No better or worse, just different...


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