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Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

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BalsaMichel
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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby BalsaMichel » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:24 pm

TomW wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:18 pm
Did some reading about 3M adhesives, looked at data sheets. There's no significant difference between the 2, 300LSE and 467mp. From what i can tell, the 467mp can take higher temperature. Both have same water immersion test, uv properties.

I wonder mostly how well the tpu will stick to it.
availability of 467MP seems to be better than 300LSE, at least on ebay and amazon. I have printed the test-patch on a glass plate so it´s very smooth underneath. If i rip it off from a smooth surface (-> shower tub) the adhesive will stick on the TPU afterwards. So it seems to stick at least "quite good" on TPU. Needs some more testing maybe.

Micha

nixmatters
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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby nixmatters » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:32 pm

BalsaMichel wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:24 pm
..If i rip it off from a smooth surface (-> shower tub) the adhesive will stick on the TPU afterwards. So it seems to stick at least "quite good" on TPU. Needs some more testing maybe.

Micha
Micha, bear in mind that these modified acrylic PSA increase bonding strength with UV exposure. I did some testing in the past and got upto 2x peel strength after 48hrs under the UV lamp in the lab. Transparent TPU is key obviously.

Do some testing if the sun shines on you wherever you are ;)
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BalsaMichel
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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby BalsaMichel » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:37 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:32 pm
Micha, bear in mind that these modified acrylic PSA increase bonding strength with UV exposure. I did some testing in the past and got upto 2x peel strength after 48hrs under the UV lamp in the lab. Transparent TPU is key obviously.

Do some testing if the sun shines on you wherever you are ;)
Ah okay, didn´t know that. Where I am at the moment is much more fog than sun. I wish it was fog sensitive :lol:

Micha

EDIT: When I hold a 0.5mm thin pad in front of a light I can see throgh it. Two thin printed layers are not really tight anyway. So should get at least some UV rays underneath.
Last edited by BalsaMichel on Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TomW
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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby TomW » Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:13 pm

In the spec sheet it says the adhesive properties increase with time, heat cycling and pressure. They mentioned a 100 hours of time to reach maximum adhesion.
It sounds promising.
I'm looking forward to making pads tailored to the board, with built in kicktail.

BalsaMichel
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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby BalsaMichel » Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:16 pm

TomW wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:13 pm
In the spec sheet it says the adhesive properties increase with time, heat cycling and pressure. They mentioned a 100 hours of time to reach maximum adhesion.
It sounds promising.
I'm looking forward to making pads tailored to the board, with built in kicktail.
I´m gonna give this a trial too.

Micha

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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby leeoo » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:40 pm

I bought the decathlon pads for my strapless DIY foilboard and they work fine for me. For barefoot riding they have just the perfect grip, with neoprene shoes the grip is even too firm, meaning in order to correct the foot position by a small amount you really need to lift the foot, no sliding possible.
The adhesive seems durable, no loose corners or edges so far.
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TomW
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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby TomW » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:19 pm

BalsaMichel wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:37 pm
nixmatters wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:32 pm
Micha, bear in mind that these modified acrylic PSA increase bonding strength with UV exposure. I did some testing in the past and got upto 2x peel strength after 48hrs under the UV lamp in the lab. Transparent TPU is key obviously.

Do some testing if the sun shines on you wherever you are ;)
Ah okay, didn´t know that. Where I am at the moment is much more fog than sun. I wish it was fog sensitive :lol:

Micha

EDIT: When I hold a 0.5mm thin pad in front of a light I can see throgh it. Two thin printed layers are not really tight anyway. So should get at least some UV rays underneath.
I modelled some pads in cad and put them in Cura. The 0,6mm pads weigh 11g. Need 23 for a board. So not light. Not including adhesive...
You think 0,4 is enough?

BalsaMichel
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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby BalsaMichel » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:14 am

TomW wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:19 pm
...I modelled some pads in cad and put them in Cura. The 0,6mm pads weigh 11g. Need 23 for a board. So not light. Not including adhesive...
You think 0,4 is enough?
I think 0.4mm will work. I would set the first layer height in Cura to somewhere at 0.25mm and the layer height to 0.15mm. So you will get 2 perpendicular crossed layers what should be good for tear resistance. I would try a 0.4mm nozzle for this (should be standard anyway). You might also need a good bed-leveling for this.

At least with my used stuff Cura calculates the weight a bit generous so it might be slightly lighter.

Micha

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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby nixmatters » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:41 pm

Micha, what PU do you use for 3D printing? TPU melted during the printing I guess.
I read somewhere recently about a liquid PU that can be 3D printed without heat/melting and it solidifies through chemical reaction (cross-linking) into PUR, which generally has higher mechanical properties than TPU.

BalsaMichel
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Re: Clear deck grips cost so much. Is it just plastic?

Postby BalsaMichel » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:36 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:41 pm
Micha, what PU do you use for 3D printing? TPU melted during the printing I guess.
I read somewhere recently about a liquid PU that can be 3D printed without heat/melting and it solidifies through chemical reaction (cross-linking) into PUR, which generally has higher mechanical properties than TPU.
I´ve made the first tests on an Ulti 2+ with Ultimaker TPU (Shore 95A). It looks and feels a lot like hard rubber. Has a break elongation of approx. 600% and a really good layer adhesion. Not like some other 3D printing materials that turn into dust if you touch them :D

There should be some other (cheaper) TPU/TPE materials on the market that will also work for this. I´m assuming the liquid PU is for systems that work with resin?

Micha


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