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Armstrong Foil is junk

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Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby patrelsa » Sat May 30, 2020 4:35 pm

Armstrong claims their product is the strongest out there!I talked to Mr Armstrong personally and told him Ive broken alot of gear,and he said you wont break the armstrong foil.One year later one of my wings that i ride 10% of the time has major failure cant put on to fuselage and other wing connection is also worn out but is barely flyable,I have snapped 5 of his titanium bolts,the titanium fuselage is loose inside the carbon part of fuselage,and the mast is very flexy compared to most other carbon masts ive ridden.May 27 2019 was my purchase date.I paid $2700 for mast fuselage and 1200 and 1600 wing.The following is a copy of there warrany email:

Thanks for the details.
I talked with Armie about it, and it seems it is not a structure issue instead of a wear and tear issue considering you have purchased the gear for a year. I include Armie in the email. Is it any problem that the wing and fuselage would not fit, with screws tight on? If possible, could you please take a video of not fitting?
As we have released new wings HS1550 and HS1050, you may want to try the HS1550? We can offer you a 10% discount for a new wing, as the compensation to the CF1600 wing. What do you think? Thank you.
Erwin from Armstrong team

They call internal carbon taper fit on inside of wing wear and tear,same sort of taper fit as Go Foil.This would never be called wear and tear by Go Foil.Its just plain bad material quality, manufacturing and design.Bottom line if someone spends $2700 on a foil and a year later the wing is nonfunctional because of what they call wear tear,Then I warn all people considering an Armstrong foil look elsewhere.They sure know how to talk up a strong foil but cant back it up

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Postby patrelsa » Sat May 30, 2020 5:18 pm

Here are some bad pictures of internal taper of wing breakage(bad quality material) and some sort of crack (bad production,no quality control) on other side of taper.....originally these walls need to be smooth and solid to get a tight fit for a wing fuselage attachment ,or else the wing flys very unstable.The problem is not only the fit but what has broken off has worked it self inside front of wing not allowing for the fuselage to go all the way in to wing and attachment screw holes dont even come close to lining up...i agree pictures are bad,but they are good enough to see internal wing damage that should not wear an week I will produce better pictures.In the last picture you can see a major crack or cut inside of wing.How is that possible?

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby jakemoore » Sat May 30, 2020 5:37 pm

So I have had a wing break after a year of jumping (not Armstrong) and wear in box fit (not Armstrong) as you have demonstrated. Would never consider a warranty claim. I have had good luck using electrical tape as shims in the box to reduce play. Hard to know if it would work for this specific connection.

I also broke a MTB front wheel in a small jump within one week of purchase and yes I was furious the warranty was not honored. I suspect spokes weren't properly tensioned during build up of the wheel.

The loose titanium innards and breaking bolts are interesting to me it is nice to know longevity and durability of gear especially in relation to construction technique.

Armstrong does talk up the idea of "unbreakable" which is a gross underestimation of people and the ocean.

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby tkaraszewski » Sat May 30, 2020 6:10 pm

I think this is a design flaw. The tapered fit works the same way as a Tuttle box, but a Tuttle box screws in so that the taper is always under compression, keeping it tight even if a bit worn. F-one’s foil system works the same way, the front wing mounts on a tapered mandrel, but the screw goes through it lengthwise, keeping it always in compression.

With the screws on the side instead of the end of the taper, there’s no way to take up any space created by wear over time, so the joint will get looser, you can’t tighten it a little more and push the mandrel deeper into the wing with a tighter fit.
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HugoMC (Sat May 30, 2020 6:55 pm)
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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby patrelsa » Sat May 30, 2020 6:28 pm

Im not much of a jumper...If i was im 100% sure the wing would have been in 2 pieces in the first you really think the taper shouldnt hold up on a $2700 foil.....i know alot of Go Foilers that have never had taper issues.....When I buy mountian bike wheels i buy downhill wheels for cross country,that way im covered☺.With Armstrong marketing you think youre getting downhill mountian biking gear but youre getting a Huffy at Santa Cruz me if anyone is looking for cheap armstrong setup.....

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby Tony » Sat May 30, 2020 6:37 pm

Did you buy it direct or from a shop?
I assume you've tried going back to the shop you bought it from (if that's the case)?
I'm pretty sure the shop's I buy from would make this right.
I don't ride Armstrong but have seen others riding it and heard nothing but good things.
That said, they've probably been on the market about a year, if there were to be long term issues or defects we'd maybe start seeing them, especially in the case of heavy use.
What's the outside look like?
Hope you get this sorted out.

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby plummet » Sat May 30, 2020 8:01 pm

Nothing is indestructible. I'd like to understand your riding style, weight, and if you have hit anything with the foil.
You state that you break a lot of gear. Perhaps your style is in question and you need to consider a change to ensure your gear lasts longer.
Titanium bolts don't just break. You have to do something pretty special to snap them.

Also if stuff has not been maintained or ridden loose that is when wear and slop can occur.

Personally, I think you are hammering your gear, treating it roughly, not maintained it, breaking and wearing it out then calling a "JRA" warrantee. (I was Just Riding Along).

Many years ago when I started racing mountain bikes I bought a brand new bike. Rode and raced it hard for 8 months through winter in the mud and grime. After 8 months the gears, brakes, wheels were all stuffed. I took it back for a warranty claim.... after it was only 8 months old! still under warranty! The shop owner declined my warrantee claim and said I had simply worn it out. At the time I was wild, I had purchased something that was very expensive and it was stuffed in 8 months!.... But I, in reality, I had hammered that bike to death and back in the worst conditions. I'd given it 4-5 years worth on normal riders work in 8 months.
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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat May 30, 2020 8:25 pm

Was about to post the very same Plummet, agree fully.

I also think you (the OP) is way too hard and unfair to Armstrong.

Can not comment on the specific pictures whatsoever, as I dont know this foil, but let alone you writing "I have broken a lot of gear", makes me think it might not be the equipment?

I have been foiling the last 7 years, and never broken anything, so we are all different in that respect.

No, it is not because my gear is indestructible, such a thing does not exist, but I am taking care, and ride a lot, more than anyone here in Denmark.
Simply different ways we ride and handle our gear, and all types between breaking something often, and never, exists of course, that is how it is and fine.

My point is just, if you have "broken a lot of gear", maybe you should address this instead?

Armstrong might very well be the strongest (have no idea), or not, but that is not the point here.

I think you are wrong putting "junk" out in a worldwide public forum with so short notice, before having talked more with Armstrong about this :cry:

8) Peter
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Horst Sergio (Sat May 30, 2020 8:48 pm)
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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby slowboat » Sat May 30, 2020 9:09 pm

Can you describe in detail how the 5 titanium bolts broke?

There is discussion above about the tapered fit being a design flaw. I don't understand how you can have wear and tear on the inside if there is no movement. Was the OP's fuse loose from the beginning?

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby jkrug » Sat May 30, 2020 10:28 pm

there are a lot of us Armstrong foil riders that have had no problems whatsoever. maybe you got something defective, or maybe you just trashed it. i don't know. but your title 'armstrong foil is junk' sounds like you're having a tantrum and doesn't help your case.

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