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Armstrong Foil is junk

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patrelsa
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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby patrelsa » Sun May 31, 2020 12:38 am

Im 6 one 230 pounds,i dont exactly mow the lawn like some of you,peter and plummet,but armie saw me riding his gear and he said to me personally you wont break armstrong gear,and i wasnt trying to.In the 5th picture you can see a clear cut (gouge )in the taper wall ,this is not allowing proper seating of taper.this is not wear and tear.Unfortunately I bought this gear from armie himself, a shop like real watersports would warranty this(like they did my lift foil),even an armstrong ambassador looked at this and told me it was not normal wear and tear.yes when i call this junk im a bit upset that someone uses videos and statements saying their gear is unbreakable but wont even have a warranty communication and the gear is very expensive and on top of it was within warranty time span and this was the least ridden wing of mine..it was my prone surf wing.and i never hit this wing on a reef or sandbar,as it never got used,but everything else is falling apart also....more armstrong kite foilers will start to come out with gear problems....yes you are right im having a $2700 tantrum with nothing but a wear and tear answer..im trying to inform people armstrong just isnt very durable and their warranty isnt very helpful either....you can keep buying armstrong gear,but that doesnt mean I cant inform others of its bad quality.ps.....titanium bolts sheared,high quality stainless is stronger

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cglazier
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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby cglazier » Sun May 31, 2020 2:00 am

I have no experience with the Armstrong. The one I saw recently looked nice. But this post below has a good point.. it is the same type of design problem I have seen in other foils (like my old Taaroa).
tkaraszewski wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:10 pm
I think this is a design flaw. The tapered fit works the same way as a Tuttle box, but a Tuttle box screws in so that the taper is always under compression, keeping it tight even if a bit worn. F-one’s foil system works the same way, the front wing mounts on a tapered mandrel, but the screw goes through it lengthwise, keeping it always in compression.

With the screws on the side instead of the end of the taper, there’s no way to take up any space created by wear over time, so the joint will get looser, you can’t tighten it a little more and push the mandrel deeper into the wing with a tighter fit.
I also wonder why they appear to use a six sided plug/socket arrangement for connecting the front wing. A four sided one (like Go foil uses) would be stronger in resisting rotation.

:roll: CG

[In fairness I should add that I have not heard of problems with Armstrong foils around here.]

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun May 31, 2020 6:22 am

Hmmm :wink:

For one, if they state it is unbreakable, it is simply wrong and not good marketing, thats for sure :roll:

On the other hand, we as users are not so naive that we think anything is unbreakable, as we see so many who tries to start in dead onshore light wind, and the wing will touch the sandbar and ALL foils will be able to break, in fact I will say most will for sure, if wing is skew on the bottom and a rider not light tries to get up on the foil.
But you know that.

Assume you ride with straps and jump a lot with your surf foil, as you write you ride "aggressive" and you are hard on your gear (instead of mowing the lawn), and you never hit anything?
Because if not, it can not be aggressive and no harsh loads on the foil, as load is symmetrical all the time.

So if only surfing with the foil, and it starts to fall apart, then there is obviously something wrong indeed with your very foil, and a replacement should be in its place :thumb:

Its just, if others havent heard about friends/users having these problems with Armstrong, it does not seem like a general common issue, which is what you imply with these posts.
But it could be a design weakness also, true.

8) Peter

PS: Must say in general, that everyone "breaking" things, stating clearly they dont jump and have never hit anything or touched the bottom when starting, are usually the ones who has indeed :naughty:

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby purdyd » Sun May 31, 2020 6:54 am

you can keep buying armstrong gear,but that doesnt mean I cant inform others of its bad quality.ps.....titanium bolts sheared,high quality stainless is stronger
Armstrong uses stainless bolts. 6mm. 316l stainless.

The tee nuts, washers and spine in the fuselage is titanium.

I assume it is six sided instead of square to reduce the radius/size
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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby Kitehume » Sun May 31, 2020 8:53 am

Yes they now use stainless screws. I remember seeing a YouTube video where Armstrong mentions that they use to use titanium screws but they where snapping. So they changed to stainless screws.
He talks about it at the 3 minute mark.
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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby marekmk » Sun May 31, 2020 8:55 am

I see Armstrong foils hammered by a handful of hard core riders on every ridable day in Terinnaki and Raglan and have seen not a breakage yet. I can not imagine the strength and determination needed to do the sort of damage that I'm seeing in this post..........tantrums can be unfair. I have not seen any one create so much damage and then attitude! why? .......before you start sharing about the strength of the steel bolts it might be worth understanding the strength in relationship to titanium which they fit intol and then think about what you will discover and then share a educated point of view about relative strength..........I,m around these foils almost every day and see the hammering they take in incredibly rough conditions and have not come close to what your are describing....No I do not have a Armstrong foil and no I'm not a fan boy.
Last edited by marekmk on Sun May 31, 2020 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby longwhitecloud » Sun May 31, 2020 10:43 am

"If possible, could you please take a video of not fitting?"

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby slowboat » Sun May 31, 2020 11:54 am

tkaraszewski wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:10 pm
I think this is a design flaw. The tapered fit works the same way as a Tuttle box, but a Tuttle box screws in so that the taper is always under compression, keeping it tight even if a bit worn. F-one’s foil system works the same way, the front wing mounts on a tapered mandrel, but the screw goes through it lengthwise, keeping it always in compression.

With the screws on the side instead of the end of the taper, there’s no way to take up any space created by wear over time, so the joint will get looser, you can’t tighten it a little more and push the mandrel deeper into the wing with a tighter fit.
If we accept what you are saying, will the "wear over time" look like the gouges in the pictures posted? I am having trouble understanding how gouges like that can happen.

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby patrelsa » Sun May 31, 2020 2:09 pm

Ok, i dont break alot of stuff,just 2 lift 200 wings and bent 2 or 3 aluminum masts.Maybe im a lillte bigger than the taranaki and raglan boys,riding powered up,strapless so no real jumping,if I hit bottom ,i would expect some damage,on outside of wing but all damage is inside...ARMSTRONG AMBASSADOR EVEN AGREED THERE WAS DAMAGE THAT WAS NOT WEAR AND TEAR.Tatanium bolts which snap are the ones that go into wing and fuselage(looks like that is a known issue ,thanks)The taper is has never been a perfect fit.

"If we accept what you are saying, will the "wear over time" look like the gouges in the pictures posted? I am having trouble understanding how gouges like that can happen." ..........EXACTLY ,THAT IS NOT WEAR AND TEAR, But armstrong said it was wear and tear....ARMSTRONG IS JUNK AND WARRANTY IS JUNK.....All you fan boys who think its great go spend the money.....You can buy mine if you like it so much...hahaha...Maybe I just got unlucky,there was no talk of warranty ,just armie saying wear and tear

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Re: Armstrong Foil is junk

Postby slowboat » Sun May 31, 2020 2:32 pm

patrelsa wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 2:09 pm
Ok, i dont break alot of stuff,just 2 lift 200 wings and bent 2 or 3 aluminum masts.Maybe im a lillte bigger than the taranaki and raglan boys,riding powered up,strapless so no real jumping,if I hit bottom ,i would expect some damage,on outside of wing but all damage is inside...ARMSTRONG AMBASSADOR EVEN AGREED THERE WAS DAMAGE THAT WAS NOT WEAR AND TEAR.Tatanium bolts which snap are the ones that go into wing and fuselage(looks like that is a known issue ,thanks)The taper is has never been a perfect fit.

"If we accept what you are saying, will the "wear over time" look like the gouges in the pictures posted? I am having trouble understanding how gouges like that can happen." ..........EXACTLY ,THAT IS NOT WEAR AND TEAR, But armstrong said it was wear and tear....ARMSTRONG IS JUNK AND WARRANTY IS JUNK.....All you fan boys who think its great go spend the money.....You can buy mine if you like it so much...hahaha...Maybe I just got unlucky,there was no talk of warranty ,just armie saying wear and tear
I am not trying to be difficult or defend the product. I am asking a simple question because I don't understand.

I will rephrase my question. The fit we are discussing is a tapered rod into a cone (more or less). So if the fit is not tight, the rod will move around and rub and grind and wear down. Can you or anyone else explain how that wearing down ends up looking like a gouge?

Peter or Charles or tkaraszewski, you guys are very knowledgeable and have a lot of credibility on this forum. Am I missing something that is obvious to everyone else?


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