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shimming Moses 633

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alowishus
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Re: shimming Moses 633

Postby alowishus » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:19 am

trod27 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:38 am
I rode 633 for a year and 683s. I had 2* shim in rear wing and loved it. I ride strapless and now moved to KS 37". I also have 450 stab.
I sold 633 and only ride 683s as I like it better.
A friend sold me the Stringy Fuselage which compensates the mast forward which allows less foot pressure.
On old Micro I did not notice foot pressure as much, but on KS I was slipping off front on tacks and foot switches missing deck pad.

Anyways when I first went to stringy fuse I liked it, but I put shim back in rear wing. Terrible. I noticed after a few sessions how it did not ride well. I took shim out and amazing how smooth the foil rides now.
I think shim cause cavitation and counters the effect of a smooth ride. I would not go back to shim. I would get a fuse or a smaller stab
Same setup.

I had initially really enjoyed the stability and sureness of the 633, but going back to the 683S was a great feeling, more fun in comparison.

I only use a little thin shim (bottle plastic), but it doesn't necessarily really much or anything when you have the "Stringy" fuse.

nayy
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Re: shimming Moses 633

Postby nayy » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:53 am

TheJoe wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:54 pm
I have a Dwarfcraft micro and I have to shim my 633/438 as well. I think if I was on a larger board I would not need it. A few of the guys that ride the same foil with custom carve boards don't need to shim since they can put their front foot further. I did print my shim with my 3d printer. I have been planning on posting the stl files but have been too lazy to do it lol.

Here is a link to the STL files for anyone that wants to try my shims.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4461415
txs !
I'll print them and try them out ...

cwood
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Re: shimming Moses 633

Postby cwood » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:07 pm

trod27 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:38 am
I rode 633 for a year and 683s. I had 2* shim in rear wing and loved it. I ride strapless and now moved to KS 37". I also have 450 stab.
I sold 633 and only ride 683s as I like it better.
A friend sold me the Stringy Fuselage which compensates the mast forward which allows less foot pressure.
On old Micro I did not notice foot pressure as much, but on KS I was slipping off front on tacks and foot switches missing deck pad.

Anyways when I first went to stringy fuse I liked it, but I put shim back in rear wing. Terrible. I noticed after a few sessions how it did not ride well. I took shim out and amazing how smooth the foil rides now.
I think shim cause cavitation and counters the effect of a smooth ride. I would not go back to shim. I would get a fuse or a smaller stab
This is absolutely the case....you cannot take a wing and stab that are meant to be balanced based on the plane of flight and introduce "down elevator" to counter wing lift and not introduce some turbulence. What might feel smooth to someone may in fact be turbulent or not as good to someone that has been on a more balanced setup. Hell, I once went from my Moses carbon and swapped on the water with someone with a Nobile split + G10 foil and I got off it a few times to see if I was dragging something behind me...the ride was so poor. Felt great to the owner (until he tried mine).

a99
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Re: shimming Moses 633

Postby a99 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:27 pm

cwood wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:07 pm
trod27 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:38 am
I think shim cause cavitation and counters the effect of a smooth ride. I would not go back to shim. I would get a fuse or a smaller stab
This is absolutely the case....you cannot take a wing and stab that are meant to be balanced based on the plane of flight and introduce "down elevator" to counter wing lift and not introduce some turbulence. What might feel smooth to someone may in fact be turbulent or not as good to someone that has been on a more balanced setup. Hell, I once went from my Moses carbon and swapped on the water with someone with a Nobile split + G10 foil and I got off it a few times to see if I was dragging something behind me...the ride was so poor. Felt great to the owner (until he tried mine).
Maybe the same feeling of poor ride appreas if to compare Moses with Mike Lab bullet foils or other super premium brand? Can someone share their experiences of compare both?

cwood
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Re: shimming Moses 633

Postby cwood » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:36 pm

a99 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:27 pm
cwood wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:07 pm
trod27 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:38 am
I think shim cause cavitation and counters the effect of a smooth ride. I would not go back to shim. I would get a fuse or a smaller stab
This is absolutely the case....you cannot take a wing and stab that are meant to be balanced based on the plane of flight and introduce "down elevator" to counter wing lift and not introduce some turbulence. What might feel smooth to someone may in fact be turbulent or not as good to someone that has been on a more balanced setup. Hell, I once went from my Moses carbon and swapped on the water with someone with a Nobile split + G10 foil and I got off it a few times to see if I was dragging something behind me...the ride was so poor. Felt great to the owner (until he tried mine).
Maybe the same feeling of poor ride appreas if to compare Moses with Mike Lab bullet foils or other super premium brand? Can someone share their experiences of compare both?
A poorly prepared and maintained super brand will ventilate and feel like crap compared to a well prepared mid brand carbon setup. The comparisons and impressions by every individual will be different. A well designed and matched carbon setup will ALWAYS feel better than a crude low end rig....and I would argue that similar AR wings and mast from Moses compared to super brands....just not that much difference. The difference is in the prep and the ability of the rider to milk the last bits of ultra performance out of them. When you dip to lower end materials and designs....no amount of prep will make them as good as the modern carbon setups.

The Nobile I mentioned, there was nothing wrong with it, other than it was cobbled together shapes and parts that inherently would never run smoothly by comparison. If you were coming from a twin tip and learning to foil, the first time on that wing for a sustained ride would feel like the magic carpet that foiling is. They serve a purpose of getting people into foiling at a good price point.
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trod27
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Re: shimming Moses 633

Postby trod27 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:53 pm

Bottom-line for me is I have found the sweet spot for 683s. And this is with NO shim. Glad I experimented and found what I like. It was night and day. I am still telling everyone on the beach how great the ride is now.
I think that is when you knw you have found it (when you come in and say that foil was great, and I wish I would have done that earlier)

My .02 don't shim a high production foil unless you have to. find another method to get what you are trying to achieve (I bought a fuselage), or a smaller stab maybe

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Re: shimming Moses 633

Postby TheJoe » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:13 pm

nayy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:53 am
TheJoe wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:54 pm
I have a Dwarfcraft micro and I have to shim my 633/438 as well. I think if I was on a larger board I would not need it. A few of the guys that ride the same foil with custom carve boards don't need to shim since they can put their front foot further. I did print my shim with my 3d printer. I have been planning on posting the stl files but have been too lazy to do it lol.

Here is a link to the STL files for anyone that wants to try my shims.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4461415
txs !
I'll print them and try them out ...
Hope you like them.
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Frankieboy
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Re: shimming Moses 633

Postby Frankieboy » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:35 pm

could find a 425 this afternoon and had a try this evening and indeed it is an excellent stab for the 633. Feels as fast as the 330 (I mean same glide) but much more stable (pitch). Not as stable as the 450 but still enough for a comfy ride and enough lift to make foot switch easy(er)


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