Armstrong vs Axis

[mister-z]

Circling back since I finally made a decision and pulled the trigger -- got myself an Axis and I absolutely love it! 760 wing, 340 stab, short fuse, 90cm 16mm alu mast, and a shiny new Tray 94 board to top it off.

First off, I agree with the overall sentiment here that you can't go wrong with either of these brands. In fact a couple weeks before I bought the Axis I had a chance to try an Armstrong CF800 that belonged to a guy I met on the beach, and I was super stoked on that thing too.

Back to how much I love my new setup. This kit is just an absolute blast for my style and skill level. The 760 has great low end, and the small stab and short fuse make it nice and maneuverable. Yet it's still stable enough that even my sloppy foot changes are often successful. And I can pump it too, which came in handy when the wind was dying down near the end of yesterday's session.

As for the board, Axis sales guy (Evan) talked me into the short one when I was leaning towards the 110 or 125, and I'm glad he did. With such a big stable wing, I found I had so much more control and ability to stay up on foil through foot changes and jibes than I ever had on my old gear (2014 Lift 110). And while I do think the 94 has good bounce for its size, there's no denying that my old ~160cm Lift board was much more forgiving on the more nose-divey touchdowns. But I honestly see that forgiveness as a bad thing, at least for me. I'd heard people talk on here before about how very short boards "force you to get better" by not giving you the option to touch down. I thought it was BS, but now that I've ridden one, I'm fully in this camp -- at least for where I'm at with my skill level. If you're a total newbie, absolutely, get the big floaty board. Once you've tamed the bucking bronco and you're starting to figure out transitions, get rid of the crutch!

tl;dr: these are two great brands, I really don't think you can go wrong, and I'm head over heels in love with my Axis

[Kamikuza]

Nice

What other wings have you used? I"m interested in the 760 too myself... I"ve got a 660 and it's brilliant.

[mister-z]

Hell yeah! I think this x60 design is stellar.

Unfortunately the 760 is the only one I've been able to ride. I had tried to set up a demo day to test out a variety of options, but it fell through. So I ended up just talking to the sales rep about my skill level (working on jibes and foot changes), my goals (carving/freestyle and getting out in very light winds), and the local conditions (San Diego - 13 knots is a heavy day!) and he helped me choose.

I'd love to try out the 660 too sometime. If you do get a chance to ride a 760, please let me know your thoughts on how they compare.

[Jugglajon]

Really love my Axis gear 94 tray, carbon mast, 545, 600, 660, 1000 wings. My preferred ride is my 545 in flat or chop. 660 for waves and 1000 for wake. Durability is great. I reefed a front wing a couple of years ago and it is still going strong. No damage to board or foil. Still not had the chance to try Armstrong yet, so a biased opinion from me I'm afraid.

The tray series are quite magic for their size. My better half was after a bigger board to help her progression. Evan convinced her that a 110 would be more than big enough. He was right.. My 94 handles the touchdowns or starts much better than my old 105 kink which was no slouch.

[atomic-chomik]

Stiff masts for sup and large wings is better. For smaller wings a mast with some flex like the mfc or armstrong is pretty snappy and fun. My concern with the flex factor is how long does it stay in form without fatigue becoming a factor.
A guy on seabreeze commented that for us older dudes-40+ league having a solid connection is crucial.
Armstrong is excellant. Axis is just behind armstrong but has more all around usage and choices.

[Kamikuza]

Hell yeah! I think this x60 design is stellar.

Unfortunately the 760 is the only one I've been able to ride. I had tried to set up a demo day to test out a variety of options, but it fell through. So I ended up just talking to the sales rep about my skill level (working on jibes and foot changes), my goals (carving/freestyle and getting out in very light winds), and the local conditions (San Diego - 13 knots is a heavy day!) and he helped me choose.

I'd love to try out the 660 too sometime. If you do get a chance to ride a 760, please let me know your thoughts on how they compare.

I'm the opposite -- used the 860 and 660 but not the 760

Used 820 and 720 for kiting for a year or so and love the glide and low end is the bigger wing but love the fun of the smaller. 660 is easier better then the 720 for me, but sometimes I'd like more glide.

So I'm wondering if the 760 will replace the 820 for me!

[mister-z]

I'm the opposite -- used the 860 and 660 but not the 760

How do these two compare for you? To be honest, I actually didn't check the specs very closely on the three x60's, just chatted with Evan about my level, goals, and local conditions and he suggested the 760 or the 680. But I just checked the specs now and am realizing that they aren't just proportionally scaled versions of the same design, they're actually much closer in surface area than I thought, so they have quite different aspect ratios.

[Kamikuza]

I'm the opposite -- used the 860 and 660 but not the 760

How do these two compare for you? To be honest, I actually didn't check the specs very closely on the three x60's, just chatted with Evan about my level, goals, and local conditions and he suggested the 760 or the 680. But I just checked the specs now and am realizing that they aren't just proportionally scaled versions of the same design, they're actually much closer in surface area than I thought, so they have quite different aspect ratios.

IIRC that day I demo'd the 900 and 860 against my baseline fav the 660 (and having the 820 in mind) for about 45 minutes each wing.

The 900 and 860 were similar in how well they glided, but the 860 carved better. Rolled into it easier, tracked around better without the sideslip the non-gull wing foils seem to have. That's the only way I can explain it... I'm not much for pumping but the 900 was easier to generate power than the 860.

The 660 to the 860 -- obviously more glide on the 860 and more care needed to keep from poking wingtips out of the water. Was using a 75cm mast.

So the what, 10% difference in area etc between them explains why I didn't notice a lot of difference overall

Didn't get to test the ultimate low end as we had reasonable wind -- I remember being ok-powered on a 10m SB without feeling overpowered or worrying I couldn't get back to the launch point...

For me it's the poking the wing tips out that ruin the buzz. Although I after months of only riding the 660, I put the 820 back on and was pleasantly surprised with how well I did not poking the tips out, and how easy recovery was when I did.

That short-non-wobbly mast/wide wing/amount of lean into the carve is pretty much my limiting factor for gear choices.

So I wonder if there's that big a difference in the 760 vs 820, despite the big difference in the physical stats.

I know the 900 was surprisingly agile for how wide it was...

[Live2KITE]

Has anyone tried the Axis carbon masts for winding ? Strong enough for that stuff ?

It would be great if Axis releases a carbon fuselage one day to complete the 100% carbon setup.

I have been riding the AXIS 96cm carbon mast for a bit over 6 months now on kite foiling and winging.
I love this mast. It works really well for both. But I also enjoy riding the 16mm aluminium for kiting, 90cm.
For SUP foiling I use the 75cm 19mm aluminium with the bigger wings.

In general the options and design of the AXIS tech is more complete than any other brand out there.
Being able to fine tune your foil to exactly what your style, progression and local conditions is by far a big advantage for me.
And each front wing works with each rear wing. That's outstanding design.

Regarding a carbon fuselage, from an engineering point of view, there is no benefit of all carbon vs titanium vs aluminium (again, this is regarding fuselage only).
The AXIS fuselages are lightweight, 6 different lengths, and fit beautifully each mast and each wing.
And it's the same fuselage that works with the 19mm alu, 16mm alu or the carbon masts!
Well done!

[Alysum]

Thanks, why do you not use the carbon mast for SUP on big wings?

Axis will be releasing a carbon mast 86cm which could be ideal to replace my 75 and 90cm al mast for both kite and winding.

The carbon masts are pretty heavy though.