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Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

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TomW
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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby TomW » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:50 pm

Trent hink wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:48 pm
Usually the difference is sandwich versus monocoque construction.
Let's try to set this straight. A lot of mixed up facts or misinterpreted terminology.

All Surfboards are a sandwich construction. Laminate-foam - laminate = sandwich.
Laminates can be made using many kinds of fibers. Glass, carbon, kevlar, hemp, jute, etc. They can be combined into multi fiber weaves or used in layers.
Laminates also have a matrix. Epoxy or polyester. Epoxy is most dominant. Some boards have thermoplastic matrix ( LF galaxy).

Now here's the big difference. Some boards have a simple laminate on the foam core. They can be plenty strong if sufficient laminate is used and sufficiently high density foam is used. It all depends upon the weight and type of fabric in the laminate and foam density.
Some boards have what is inaccurately, but used in marketing, called sandwich construction.
That means the structure looks like this from deck : laminate- thin high density foam ( generally 80kg/m2 3mm thick) - laminate - core foam,
- laminate- thin high density foam- laminate. This is way stronger than simple laminate on foam. Laminates can be thinner. And if done correctly its lighter and stronger than simple laminate. If you want a board that weighs 2,5 kg and is strong, you have to pay for this construction which is more expensive.

Many of us use hydrofoil boards with such low volume, that using " sandwich " construction is not worth it. Theres not much foam in there. It's easier to just use a higher density foam and simple laminate. Many manufacturers are doing this.

Now the orb looks like a simple surfboard construction. PU foam with glass laminate, perhaps some carbon unidirectional in the center. That construction is totally ok. But it has to have extra lamination to stand up to abuse. If it weighs 3kg then it likely does. ( or the makers are totally lost- not likely). That said, a board made this way has to be treated like a sensitive musical instrument. Its going to get dinged if you bang your bar on it, let it rest against your harness hook with 4 kg hydrofoil hanging out there, it's going to ding or get laminate damage.

Delamination is likely manufacturing error and the board should be returned on warranty.

Overall, kiteboarders coming from TT don't understand or realize that a surfboard is a super sensitive object. Not all kitesurfboards, or hydrofoil boards, but all will not take abuse like a TT.
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Trent hink
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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby Trent hink » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:22 pm

Hi Tom, I respectfully disagree. But maybe it is just on terminology. In my mind, Monocoque is a foam core with a fiber reinforcement and resin skin.

Sandwich, on the other hand, is a foam core with a layer of reinforcement, then a thin layer of higher density core material and then more fiber reinforcement and resin.

These two types of construction are very different. Monocoque can be very cheap, but it is actually possible to be good if done well.

Sandwich will always be stiffer, and if it is done well it will also be lighter and stronger.

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cglazier
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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby cglazier » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:43 pm

Now that Liquid Force is closing its kiteboarding business, you have a new situation.

;-) CG

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby Trent hink » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:51 pm

On the cheaper liquid force boards, they use a higher density foam. The skin might have some fiber reinforcement, but it might be just plastic.

Galaxy foil board is an example. Not a bad board but i have heard of many failures with it. It was also a very popular board around here, so just a few failures might stick out.

Just to be clear, I have not disassembled any to be sure.

I have seen an orb up close, and to me it looks like standard monocoque epoxy surfboard construction. They at least look real nice. I wonder why the weight is high.

I only ride strapless. It would be nice if some manufacturers would offer strapless versions. Decent weight savings getting rid of crap i might never use.

Of course, i would expect to pay more for the benefit of leaving out the bells and whistles i don't want.... Isn't that standard now days?

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby lizards » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:44 pm

cglazier wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:43 pm
Now that Liquid Force is closing its kiteboarding business, you have a new situation.

;-) CG
want to elaborate on that? I've had a few items replaced under warranty by liquid force which is a little disappointing but they've always been good about it.

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cglazier
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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby cglazier » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:23 am

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gigibianchi
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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby gigibianchi » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:17 am

alex 1 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:06 pm
hi,
i have the orb now for a few months- got one of the first ones in Europe- what shall i say? iam happy- about the weight- yeah its not superlight- but on water the relevant points seem to be reinforced; it did not break yet and i have 105 kgs and do strapless airs on it....maybe to mention that it is not 110cm- its 117cm long and has 16l volume...and many inserts for straps- all these things make it heavier than a zero volume 110 board or a board of same size without plugs - and maybe just 2 layers of 6oz glass- such a board would not last under my feet for 1 day...

if you want to get an impression how it is on the water checkout my clip here- i like it, had to repair it after dropping it on the rocks- but this is ok for me, was my fault..every surfer knows that a board does not take all hits without marks, so a bit shapermentality is an issue here- and all surfboards get yellow after a while due to uv-rays..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35IbQj-K5HI&t=28s
last Minute is the action on board..
the pad feels nice- and its correct marks of sharpe things are an issue, so take care and get another harness..maybe to mention i have ride engine slider hook after punching holes into my surfboards years ago- they are no wood core twintips with grindbase..

regards
LXT
Hi,

I know LF states it is 3'10 which are approximately 117cm but mine measures 113.8cm. True it is not 110cm but take the T22 by Moses, for example, 108cm long and and it weighs 1.9Kg, it has inserts for front straps and it doesn't cost much (less than the orb). The volume of the board isn't an issue for me (i don't need the flotation for waterstart and i weigh only 70kg so i'm not afraid to break it by standing on it) therefore i probably should've bought a lighter board.

The whole surface became yellow from uv rays but i was talking about a specific spot that became more yellow than the rest of the surface and has a lump.

Pad get marks not only from the harness but also by touching my bar when i body drag to enter a wavy sea


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