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Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

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TomW
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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby TomW » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:50 pm

Trent hink wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:48 pm
Usually the difference is sandwich versus monocoque construction.
Let's try to set this straight. A lot of mixed up facts or misinterpreted terminology.

All Surfboards are a sandwich construction. Laminate-foam - laminate = sandwich.
Laminates can be made using many kinds of fibers. Glass, carbon, kevlar, hemp, jute, etc. They can be combined into multi fiber weaves or used in layers.
Laminates also have a matrix. Epoxy or polyester. Epoxy is most dominant. Some boards have thermoplastic matrix ( LF galaxy).

Now here's the big difference. Some boards have a simple laminate on the foam core. They can be plenty strong if sufficient laminate is used and sufficiently high density foam is used. It all depends upon the weight and type of fabric in the laminate and foam density.
Some boards have what is inaccurately, but used in marketing, called sandwich construction.
That means the structure looks like this from deck : laminate- thin high density foam ( generally 80kg/m2 3mm thick) - laminate - core foam,
- laminate- thin high density foam- laminate. This is way stronger than simple laminate on foam. Laminates can be thinner. And if done correctly its lighter and stronger than simple laminate. If you want a board that weighs 2,5 kg and is strong, you have to pay for this construction which is more expensive.

Many of us use hydrofoil boards with such low volume, that using " sandwich " construction is not worth it. Theres not much foam in there. It's easier to just use a higher density foam and simple laminate. Many manufacturers are doing this.

Now the orb looks like a simple surfboard construction. PU foam with glass laminate, perhaps some carbon unidirectional in the center. That construction is totally ok. But it has to have extra lamination to stand up to abuse. If it weighs 3kg then it likely does. ( or the makers are totally lost- not likely). That said, a board made this way has to be treated like a sensitive musical instrument. Its going to get dinged if you bang your bar on it, let it rest against your harness hook with 4 kg hydrofoil hanging out there, it's going to ding or get laminate damage.

Delamination is likely manufacturing error and the board should be returned on warranty.

Overall, kiteboarders coming from TT don't understand or realize that a surfboard is a super sensitive object. Not all kitesurfboards, or hydrofoil boards, but all will not take abuse like a TT.
These users thanked the author TomW for the post (total 2):
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Trent hink
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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby Trent hink » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:22 pm

Hi Tom, I respectfully disagree. But maybe it is just on terminology. In my mind, Monocoque is a foam core with a fiber reinforcement and resin skin.

Sandwich, on the other hand, is a foam core with a layer of reinforcement, then a thin layer of higher density core material and then more fiber reinforcement and resin.

These two types of construction are very different. Monocoque can be very cheap, but it is actually possible to be good if done well.

Sandwich will always be stiffer, and if it is done well it will also be lighter and stronger.

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby cglazier » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:43 pm

Now that Liquid Force is closing its kiteboarding business, you have a new situation.

;-) CG

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby Trent hink » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:51 pm

On the cheaper liquid force boards, they use a higher density foam. The skin might have some fiber reinforcement, but it might be just plastic.

Galaxy foil board is an example. Not a bad board but i have heard of many failures with it. It was also a very popular board around here, so just a few failures might stick out.

Just to be clear, I have not disassembled any to be sure.

I have seen an orb up close, and to me it looks like standard monocoque epoxy surfboard construction. They at least look real nice. I wonder why the weight is high.

I only ride strapless. It would be nice if some manufacturers would offer strapless versions. Decent weight savings getting rid of crap i might never use.

Of course, i would expect to pay more for the benefit of leaving out the bells and whistles i don't want.... Isn't that standard now days?

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby lizards » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:44 pm

cglazier wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:43 pm
Now that Liquid Force is closing its kiteboarding business, you have a new situation.

;-) CG
want to elaborate on that? I've had a few items replaced under warranty by liquid force which is a little disappointing but they've always been good about it.

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby cglazier » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:23 am

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby gigibianchi » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:17 am

alex 1 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:06 pm
hi,
i have the orb now for a few months- got one of the first ones in Europe- what shall i say? iam happy- about the weight- yeah its not superlight- but on water the relevant points seem to be reinforced; it did not break yet and i have 105 kgs and do strapless airs on it....maybe to mention that it is not 110cm- its 117cm long and has 16l volume...and many inserts for straps- all these things make it heavier than a zero volume 110 board or a board of same size without plugs - and maybe just 2 layers of 6oz glass- such a board would not last under my feet for 1 day...

if you want to get an impression how it is on the water checkout my clip here- i like it, had to repair it after dropping it on the rocks- but this is ok for me, was my fault..every surfer knows that a board does not take all hits without marks, so a bit shapermentality is an issue here- and all surfboards get yellow after a while due to uv-rays..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35IbQj-K5HI&t=28s
last Minute is the action on board..
the pad feels nice- and its correct marks of sharpe things are an issue, so take care and get another harness..maybe to mention i have ride engine slider hook after punching holes into my surfboards years ago- they are no wood core twintips with grindbase..

regards
LXT
Hi,

I know LF states it is 3'10 which are approximately 117cm but mine measures 113.8cm. True it is not 110cm but take the T22 by Moses, for example, 108cm long and and it weighs 1.9Kg, it has inserts for front straps and it doesn't cost much (less than the orb). The volume of the board isn't an issue for me (i don't need the flotation for waterstart and i weigh only 70kg so i'm not afraid to break it by standing on it) therefore i probably should've bought a lighter board.

The whole surface became yellow from uv rays but i was talking about a specific spot that became more yellow than the rest of the surface and has a lump.

Pad get marks not only from the harness but also by touching my bar when i body drag to enter a wavy sea

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby chirojoseph » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:26 am

as long as we are talking about the LF Galaxy pros and contras... I've heard a few other owners state that one or more of the triple insert "sets" come loose under the "laminate" of fiberglass... or plastic sheet..? as one guy here wrote.

I just purchased a barely used 4ft2 model in Hood River (now I know why the guy was so stoked that I bought it) which takes on water (and then leaks it out) from the center front set of three inserts. all the rest seem to be anchored well but the front center three all move together as one.. when I thread a bolt into one of them and wiggle it... all three move together. no way to know this when I bought it... I've never in 20 years of kiting had inserts that slide around like this and never thought to check it.. the REST Of the board is mint.

So it's pretty obvious they are just set into a piece of high density foam which is then epoxied into the core. has anyone here had this situation who might give us an idea on best way tu fix? First I had thought of drilling a tiny hole on either side of the inserts and injecting epoxy resin with a syringe and keep my fingers crossed. if I take it to surfboard repair guy... Will he tell me the top "laminate" is just a sheet of plastic? or is it, as you guys are talking about.. actuality fiberglass??

We are talking about the very ubiquitous LF GALAXY 4ft2 here now... NOT the Orb.

I really enjoy having the front footstrap.. mostly for entering the ocean when there are alot of waves and using as a handle when body dragging.. specially when wind dies and looping kite while dragging back in... so it's kind of an issue.. I know I could just fill those holes up with silicon and ride it but from what I hear this is a common issue with these boards and maybe someone has a good trick for a somewhat easy fix???

thanx in advance,!!

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby taiguy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:06 pm

chirojoseph wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:26 am
as long as we are talking about the LF Galaxy pros and contras... I've heard a few other owners state that one or more of the triple insert "sets" come loose under the "laminate" of fiberglass... or plastic sheet..? as one guy here wrote.

I just purchased a barely used 4ft2 model in Hood River (now I know why the guy was so stoked that I bought it) which takes on water (and then leaks it out) from the center front set of three inserts. all the rest seem to be anchored well but the front center three all move together as one.. when I thread a bolt into one of them and wiggle it... all three move together. no way to know this when I bought it... I've never in 20 years of kiting had inserts that slide around like this and never thought to check it.. the REST Of the board is mint.

So it's pretty obvious they are just set into a piece of high density foam which is then epoxied into the core. has anyone here had this situation who might give us an idea on best way tu fix? First I had thought of drilling a tiny hole on either side of the inserts and injecting epoxy resin with a syringe and keep my fingers crossed. if I take it to surfboard repair guy... Will he tell me the top "laminate" is just a sheet of plastic? or is it, as you guys are talking about.. actuality fiberglass??

We are talking about the very ubiquitous LF GALAXY 4ft2 here now... NOT the Orb.

I really enjoy having the front footstrap.. mostly for entering the ocean when there are alot of waves and using as a handle when body dragging.. specially when wind dies and looping kite while dragging back in... so it's kind of an issue.. I know I could just fill those holes up with silicon and ride it but from what I hear this is a common issue with these boards and maybe someone has a good trick for a somewhat easy fix???

thanx in advance,!!
Wife has the Orb board and she just noticed that too on the front center inserts where she keeps a foot hook. The strip of 3 inserts has separated from the rest of the board. There's a crack which allows the entire strip to bend upwards now.

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Re: Review: Liquid Force Orb (foilboard)

Postby FilNorthman » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:03 am

Poor you , I have that board and I just love that board with no issues , probably a citrus

Hope you find a solution


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