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learning to foil behind a boat

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Re: learning to foil behind a boat

Postby Whattheflock » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:09 pm

At the time, my second time ever (first try under kite) on the foil behind the waverunner. hoverglide h5-18"mast simulator board. I think the second clip shows what happens when you give too much throttle.

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Re: learning to foil behind a boat

Postby wheat » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:35 am

I like behind the boat for foil learning if you have one and don't get wind all the time.
Do all the drills!

start with your strong foot forward.
touch and go: on the surface to on foil and back to surface. learns balance front to back. Gives you a way to ride downwind if you are stuck upwind without pitchpoling.
Small quick turns, both heel and toe. Learn ball heel pressure so you can point upwind to limit power and downwind to stay on power/foil.
Big, deep strong turns are fun and show balance and can turn into a jibe.
long tacks to each side to work on good toe side position.
-> then do it all with again with your weak foot forward.

If you are falling too much before riding enough, do all these drills on a surfboard. The falls are less painful and body position is the same.

Duotone academy app and Rob's Progression videos are both excellent!

Wear helmet and pfd/impact vest
Have fun

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Progress update :Re: learning to foil behind a boat

Postby Grizwald » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:01 pm

Update. Following the suggestions posted here (thanks everyone) I purchased a slingshot hoverglide with a 71 cm mast. My first time out I was up and riding for about 60 seconds which I was unable to repeat for several days. Part of the problem on my second day was forgetting to take the covers off the wings. Fortunately I have a long history of being stupid so I wasn't all that surprised.
I eventually built a tower for my "aircraft carrier" (an old pontoon boat that I stripped down to act as a portable beach for kiting) I found that the tow rope was getting bounced around by the rooster tail.

My rear leg gets sooooo tired that I have to quit after about 10 minutes. Tired to the point that I can't stand on it when I crawl back on board. Now I am the first to admit I am not the greatest specimen of human physique but this seems a little excessive even for me. I have a rear hook but it is not adjustable. Any suggestions? Is this just part of the learning curve? Should I change the mast position? I have considered taking the hook off but haven't tried it yet.

For some reason, whenever I am up and going I almost completely catch up with the boat. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with this and It makes it easy to see that my wife is not checking her phone but it seems strange. I would say I am less than 20 degrees off of perpendicular. To drop back I have to touch down and let the boat get ahead. Is there an explanation for this? Am I doing something wrong? Is this related to quantum entanglement and the accelerating expansion of the universe?
Thank you for your insights

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Re: learning to foil behind a boat

Postby Herman » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:54 pm

I really like your posts so I am going to take a wild stab at why you end up @ 20° to the boat. There is also a severe danger that I might be talking utter bollox because I have never foiled behind a boat although I have ridden plenty of other stuff.
My theory is that you rode out there! I am guessing you go out there because you like to feel some reassuring tension in the tow line. I think once up on the foil, because it is so efficient, you are going to have to adapt to riding with much less tension than you are used to.

This should not be considered as an insight, I just don't think it is related to any spacetime distortion created by universe expansion, however, from a quantum view point it may be because your wife is observing you instead of checking her phone

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Re: learning to foil behind a boat

Postby Grizwald » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:37 pm

Herman you make an excellent point. If my wife is observing me than I cannot say with certainty that I am beside the boat. As this involves being pulled behind a boat by a rope this may be a question for string theory.
Otherwise I think you are probably correct that it is the lack of resistance that causes me to go forward. It is just weird to be so far forward. If I was on skis or a board I would be cranked out and probably couldn't maintain the position for more than a few seconds. On the foil I am just out there zipping along and I feel that I am not leaning into the rope at all. Very strange.

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Re: learning to foil behind a boat

Postby markchatwin » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:27 pm

I started wake foiling seriously 8 weeks ago with my buddy's 5'2" Nobile split board and 24" and 30" mast and relatively small wing (Shinn). I had similar experiences as you but I studied lots of videos and think I can give a good perspective. Last Sunday I also got a chance to foil behind a Malibu 25' wake surf boat with my buddy's 4'10" Slingshot Hover Glide board, 28" mast and 76cm wing (large). What a difference the Slingshot made in the sense of stability and pumping. But it doesn't change the rudiments of feet and body position.

I watched your video a couple times and feel like you are always leaning back on your rear leg to get the foil up. I did that too and always had a sore back leg. I studied some videos, watched two of my buddies who are very skilled at all things foiling (kiting, wake, winging, etc). I noticed they were very centered over both legs. i.e. - both quads were equally engaged. To do that I had to move farther back on the board. If you water start too far back you can have a breach of the foil so I start a little forward and crawl my feet back once riding.

By being farther back you come out of the water very easily and I keep the foil in the water by using more forward foot pressure. I lean my chin out over my forward knee. This keeps both my quads equally engaged.

I also feel that maybe your stance might be "legs a little too close together" but it's hard to tell from the video. If so this would explain some problems. When you start dynamically going over the wake I believe you have to be in a lower, wider more quads engaged position. This is especially so as you go "over the falls" (over and down the wake). If you don't really put weight (forward pressure, chin/chest over knee) the foil will breach and you'll porpoise out.

I don't feel from the video that you are catching up to the boat. Your rope seems to always be relatively tight. I am very close to riding ropeless (a couple sessions I think). I notice that when I get on my wave my rope literally goes slack and sits on the water. If I allow the forward motion that going on the wave gives me to propel me straight forward I shoot towards the boat so much that I either fall off because I don't want the slack rope to kill me when it tightens or I take my chances with the slack rope if it's not too slack.

I have studied why my 2 buddies are ropeless and never shooting too forward. #1 they get on the wave and instead of riding it down and ending up too forward and stalling they make a turn back into the wave to stay on it. #2 they ride up the wave (closer to boat) into that area where there is still push but then they pump back to the wave. Point being they are always being dynamic, moving and maintaining lift. All this keep in mind is on the 2nd wave of the boats. None of us feel like we have to ride right behind the boat on the main wake. Though we have done the main wake it's got some risk being so close and it's not really needed and you get some exhaust fumes and it's noisier.

Keep us posted on your progression. My progression was wake boarding since 2002, then windsurfing since 2005, snow kiting since 2007, then kitesurfing since 2008, wake surfing since 2018, kite foiling since 2018 (though not too many sessions and not too successful yet), and wakefoilng this summer. I took up wake foiling this past summer to prepare me for kite foiling going forward. Even though it requires a boat wake foiling is really fun. It really put a welcome jolt to normal wakeboard/wakesurf activities. Really very little torque on your arms, it's really effortless.
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