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Shorter board is less playful...!

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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:40 pm

salvino, what is "smaller" to you?

And what is not small?

Weight?

8) Peter

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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:09 am

salvino wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:06 pm
forget this shim business
Oh lordy buckle up, here we go! :lol:

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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby Huib » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:31 am

I went from a Groove Skate (carbon) 120 cm to a Groove Wave (carbon) 123 cm. Mastpostion exactly the same.
Both boards have a lot of scoop. But the Wave is much more dynamic then the Skate. With the skate, I considered buying a smaller board.
Now that I have the Wave, this is a thing of the past
I can't explain why there is so much difference in characteristics but I now know that despite that board is above water, the design is very important.

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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby tomtom » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:06 am

Diferences are from deck shape. different interface between your feet and deck. Its important this how your transfer your movement to foil

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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby fluidity » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:36 am

I'm not yet a foiler but I'm guessing it's to do with the COG of the board sitting on the mast and the rotational inertia of a bigger board.
As for shims for the foil, that's easy: If it's wanting to always nose dive more as it speeds up then you need more down drive on the tail wing by increasing it's downward angle of attack.
If it's trying to lift all the time and you're having to fight it then you want to put the shim the other way around. That's unlikely though. I'd start by adjusting your mast-foot placement under the board so that it's neutral when your feet are in your preferred positions, i.e. straps. If you put a longer mast, that's when you're more likely to need shims as your rotational moment around the drag of the foil is higher, you need more correction.

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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby mr_daruman » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:10 am

Smaller lighter boards will always be more reactive.
My take on this. One thing I noticed is the tail shape/thickness of the small board. If very narrow and thick (ala slingshot micro), once flying the board feels very unstable and wobbly in turns. These board shapes are best for racing, so it's very puzzling/lazy to use these same shapes for tiny boards...cost effective I guess.
A larger/thinner tail area (kanaha 90cm for example) feels more secure, turns can be more powerful and stable. So the way the board is balanced due to its witdth and thickness really affects the foil in your turn.

For me super thin/short/wide boards with some rocker feels the best when carving or turning In waves. Thick narrow boards (tail area in particular) almost always feels wobbly unresponsive, whatever the length.
79999827_10221707441183193_8142580603858976768_o.jpg
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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby marlboroughman » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:22 pm

I am new at this (15 sessions) but I noticed that my foot position has gradually changed. I went from back foot over the mast, wide stance to back foot in the front of the mast narrow stance. Look at the pics of people riding mini boards, back foot in the front of the mast and narrow stance and that's the only way you will change your feet.
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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:42 pm

Rear foot with respect to the CoE of the foil makes a massive difference in foil responsiveness with respect to pitch. Foot with respect to mast position is simply an easy reference and varies a little between foils. Narrow stance with the back foot on or in front of the mast are going to be steady pitch stances. Great making your way back upwind nice and relaxed, but shit for engaging in pitch variable riding when engaging swell. Foils only really come alive when you engage the vertical axis. Learning to pump is essential for embracing your foils potential in hard carves and airs.

I put my foot in front of the mast to rest and cruise upwind. I put it back behind the mast when I want to have fun.

On small enough boards the front foot position is relatively consistent and only really shifts around by and inch or two.
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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby marlboroughman » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:58 pm

The other thing I noticed while carving the foil that it is even more from the hip than a surfboard. Narrow stance frees your hip to drive harder.

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Re: Shorter board is less playful...!

Postby kit3surfer » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:10 pm

mr_daruman wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:10 am
Smaller lighter boards will always be more reactive.
My take on this. One thing I noticed is the tail shape/thickness of the small board. If very narrow and thick (ala slingshot micro), once flying the board feels very unstable and wobbly in turns. These board shapes are best for racing, so it's very puzzling/lazy to use these same shapes for tiny boards...cost effective I guess.
A larger/thinner tail area (kanaha 90cm for example) feels more secure, turns can be more powerful and stable. So the way the board is balanced due to its witdth and thickness really affects the foil in your turn.

For me super thin/short/wide boards with some rocker feels the best when carving or turning In waves. Thick narrow boards (tail area in particular) almost always feels wobbly unresponsive, whatever the length.
79999827_10221707441183193_8142580603858976768_o.jpg
82214943_10221931113374858_3468270212749459456_o.jpg
That is exactly what I feel. Maybe I forgot to mention that my first board (the Duotone freefoil) was not only longer, but also no voulume board. My new board now has way mor voulume/thickness than the old one. Could this be the difference in liveness/playfulness.
Otherwise, of course when riding upwind to gain some space for downwind wave action, I am also standing with my backfoot in frknt of the mast. But when riding swella nd playing with waves I put the backfoot more towards the tail but it doesn't still feel the same as with my old beginner board...
BTW, thanks for all your comments.


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