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Spitfire-cannards in general

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atomic-chomik
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Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby atomic-chomik » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:15 am

Ok these were really taking off a couple years ago and it seems like spitfire lovers are kind of like Cloud fans-kind of fanatical or somethin. I tried one for the first time today and was enthralled by it. It was...better in a lot of ways. Whats the catch? Why havent they taken over?

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Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby bragnouff » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:21 am

There could be a few explanations, first, it's because it's very different than everything else in the market. So it's arguably harder to convince someone to purchase the odd looking foil when 99% of the products on the market look like the traditional foil design. It takes more effort to show the benefits to go over that pre-conceived oddness. Always some suspicious thinking, along the lines of "if the concept was that good, then why isn't everyone else doing it too?"
Many kite foilers who like carving and freeride (as opposed to racers), who are the target audience of SpitFire, use Surf foils (over 1000cm²). Here again, offering is heavily geared towards conventional design, even if there is the SpitFire XXLW that covers the surf usage. Arguably the SpitFire design is not as good for pumping. (Or at least, there hasn't been a published video of someone linking 5 waves on one of them). Surf foil is essentially showcased by the Hawaiian crew, Go Foil, Naish,... big exposure and marketing,... and that weighs heavily against one single French odd looking design.

There hasn't been a perceived evolution on the SpitFire in the last year or two, despite the market being hungry for a carbon mast and fuse to upgrade the SpitFire. (possible limits in the capacity of the Zeeko R&D to develop the different new products). It's a gear sport, and consumers in that market can be sensitive to purchasing something that is 3yrs old. They could -wrongly- consider that as outdated or obsolete.

As far as I'm concerned, I still love the XLW Spitfire, I don't use it as often as I used to, though. I now typically ride Peak4 kites when foiling, and they don't always relaunch, so I ride a big board to float me home if needed, and big board with heavy foil is harder to manage for quick efficient waterstarts in waves than with a foil that floats and stays on the side. SpitFire goes well with low volume boards, or when there is no pressure from onshore waves to take your time for waterstart.

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Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby mister-z » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:28 am

atomic-chomik wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:15 am
It was...better in a lot of ways.
Can you elaborate? Was it worse in any ways? I've never seen or heard of them until this post, and now I'm intrigued.

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Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby flying doctor » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:30 pm

I'm curious what others have to say about this. I bought a spitfire last year after learning to foil so have very little comparison. I'm having a lot of fun with it and am progressing slowly, but have no way of knowing if other material would help me progress faster. I'll be testing some other foils like the Gong soon I hope. The biggest limitation is probably me and I plan to keep using it for this season.

My biggest problem at the moment is that the baseplate has a 160x85mm spacing. If I want to buy another board (and I think I'm ready for something shorter and lighter than my pocket air) they all seem to have 90mm tracks.

So I guess I'm caught in the Zeeko eco-system?

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Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby lederhosen » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:53 pm

flying doctor wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:30 pm
My biggest problem at the moment is that the baseplate has a 160x85mm spacing. If I want to buy another board (and I think I'm ready for something shorter and lighter than my pocket air) they all seem to have 90mm tracks.

So I guess I'm caught in the Zeeko eco-system?
The spitfire baseplate is standard size, I have used it on both Liquidforce tracks and the Crazyfly Flite screw connection without problem.

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Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:27 pm

I learned on Zeeko's first version of their alloy foil. It had a few odd little plastic spacers when assembled normally. They allowed for clearance of the main wing to be mounted in reverse and the stab to be mounted with the proper angle also in reverse so the foil could essentially by assembled as a canard. They changed those little details as soon as they brought the spitfire to market so you could no longer assemble their second generation of the alloy foil as a canard. I was an absolute beginner foiler at the time and it always just felt like I was on a steep learning curve so thought I would try that later. Sadly, I never did give it a try before snapping that fuselage. I definitely regret it. Might not have been as good as the spitfire, but likely would have at least let me experience it. Anyone have one of those old first gen Zeeko Alloy fuses kicking around ? Might have to just build one someday.

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Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby juandesooka » Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:56 pm

Seems to be about 14 people in the world interested and I'm one of them. I made a g10 copy of the original spitfire, sized up 30-50 percent, but never got the balance worked out, so gave up the experiment. Though I did get a taste of the rear foot bias in turns and really liked it.

I have been riding stringy foils for 5 years. I now picked up the real deal 3 wing set from someone who has moved on to other foils.

First session on xxlw.... immediate wow. Perfect balance, no drop offs, reasonably fast for its size, great turning. Fun in waves. Bit of a hum. A little too much lift with a bigger kite and waves, some out of control explosive wipeouts.

First try on xlw... requires a bit more speed and power to get up and stay up. Had a few drop offs if going too slow. But it is fast, keeping up with buddy on Moses 633. And fast turning, fun to stomp the heelside to backside turns, felt like a surfboard shortboard cutback ... and ultimately that is what I was after, experiment is a success. I am selling my stringy.

I doubt I will try the small original wings. Xlw for zippy flat water. Xxlw for wavey conditions.

I don't expectu xxlw will have enough lift for me to surf foil but may give it a try (though I only have long mast). Wingfoil maybe for a high wind day, definitely not enough lift otherwise (main wingfoil is maliko 200 at 2000cm2).

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Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:45 pm

Hi

I rode the first Spitfire for a long time, about 3 years ago, liked it a lot, and very lively, so fun in waves.

But too small by the standards in wing size we have had over the last many years now.

Last year I rode the XLW for some time, with a 108 cm pocket board.

It had the perfect size for waves and fun, in terms of wing area/lift.

The reason I did not continue, was it was slower turning than my wavefoils with small stabs.

So for fast waveriding and turns/yaw, not as good IMO (if it is "big" canard specific, but I think it is).

And this should be the very reason (for me) to go canard :-?

So the rearfoot bias was overshadowed by this lower agility, for me.

8) Peter

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Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby flying doctor » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:15 am

lederhosen wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:53 pm
flying doctor wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:30 pm
My biggest problem at the moment is that the baseplate has a 160x85mm spacing. If I want to buy another board (and I think I'm ready for something shorter and lighter than my pocket air) they all seem to have 90mm tracks.

So I guess I'm caught in the Zeeko eco-system?
The spitfire baseplate is standard size, I have used it on both Liquidforce tracks and the Crazyfly Flite screw connection without problem.
That's interesting, have you measured your base plate?

I honestly haven't tried to pair it to any other board, I bought mine with the zeeko pocket air. As you can see from the info the spacing is 85mm and not 90mm. I assume this just won't fit regular tracks but I may be wrong..
Zeeko has a base plate of 90mm on sale but on their site it says it's not compatible with the spitfire.

http://zeeko-kites.com/gb/kitefoil-seri ... 12734.html
F1708BBB-0312-4A25-BAC9-4404E82F374E.jpeg

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Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby lederhosen » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:40 am

Maybe they have changed the base plate at some point, but if you want to use it on other boards just give it a try, it might fit. I took a picture of mine. Image
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