Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Spitfire-cannards in general

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
juandesooka
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1064
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:05 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Sooke, BC, Canada
Style: Canada's Kai Lenny (in my mind)
Gear: Ocean Rodeo / Spitfire Foil / GoFoil / Ozone wings
Brand Affiliation: Open to offers
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby juandesooka » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:31 pm

I just bought a used spitfire 3-wing setup, with my loan/demo prompting Atomic's thread. I am LOVING the spitfire so far, I expected a learning curve to get used to it, but first try on the XXLW, it just fit immediately ... stable and nice turning. Last few sessions I've focused on XLW, fast and carvey, love the turning off the back foot, stomping turns like a surf shortboard.

I have been riding Stringy for past 5 years, so it's a small variation on a ride I am already well used to. When I got my stringy, it was considered lame by the foil elite, biggest wings at the beach compared to their race oriented foils. Now it's lame because everyone is on huge surf wings and riding tiny kites, smallest wings at the beach. I like to ride more powered up than the other ocal foil riders, 1 kite size less than twin tippers, but 1 kite size above the surf wing foilers. I prefer powered fast carves, like snowboarding. The spitfire feels great, I figure it adds 20% extra tight turning. I will be interested to experiment with smaller kite sizes with the XXLW. The XLW does require more speed, will drop off foil at lower speeds, so smaller kite isn't as fun. I have no intention to try the small original wings.

Additional thoughts:

-- Mako niche comparison: I don't twintip much any more, but when I do, it's on a mako! Love that board, not quite a twintip.

-- turning wings around: yes, you can attempt to use any wings in a canard set up and they will work basically. But getting the balance right requires a lot of fiddling around. Back when spitfire first came out, I attempted to copy the original wings with g10, sized up 30% on rear wing and 10% on stab for additional lift and lower speed performance. It worked, but had a tendency to drop off foil, required excessive rear foot pressure. I didn't want to invest the time so left the experiment. I also tried it with an oversize stringy wing later on, couldn't get it to work, wanted to nose dive, had the stab wrong for sure ... but again, couldn't be bothered to figure it out.

-- base plate, mine fit 90mm spacing without issue.

-- mast angle....interesting, will measure that, Atomic is making a copy of XXLW, so that may help with tuning.

-- ono: nothing on their site about canards that I could find, abandoned it? the other company I was aware of years ago was crazyfoil in quebec, but more wake oriented. That's about it. I wondered at the time if the lack of canard interest might have been patent related, restricted from pursuing it? No one in surf foil world is trying it that I am aware of. I may attempt an XXXLW and try it wing foiling.
These users thanked the author juandesooka for the post (total 3):
jumptheshark (Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:37 pm) • bragnouff (Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:32 pm) • flying doctor (Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:35 am)
Rating: 25%

juandesooka
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1064
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:05 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Sooke, BC, Canada
Style: Canada's Kai Lenny (in my mind)
Gear: Ocean Rodeo / Spitfire Foil / GoFoil / Ozone wings
Brand Affiliation: Open to offers
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby juandesooka » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:50 pm

A PS about tuning the DIY project: measured the mast angle, 3 degrees down. Both the wings also have different angles too, so all in all, there's some science going on. No wonder my caveman diy version didn't quite work. Atomic C has his work cut out for him.

drone
Rare Poster
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:52 am
Local Beach: Latvia's coast Beaches
Style: Freeride, foil, snow, ice.
Gear: FS, SS, LF, C, N, B.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby drone » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:37 pm

drone wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:08 pm
LF cannard ready for test 🤣
Tried today, no lift at all. Looked like front wing (stab) pushing down not up.
Need some flatwater to feel something more.

atomic-chomik
Frequent Poster
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:33 pm
Local Beach: The wild west
Style: Freeride/Surf
Gear: North Dice 8 and 10m
North Neo 12m
OR Prodigy 7m
OR Prodigy 9.5.
OR Prodigy 12m
2014 Rebel 5m and 8m
OR 17M Flite
OR Duke
Cabrinha Phenom 5'8
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby atomic-chomik » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:23 pm

The front wing has 1 degree AoA with the trailing edge of the wing edging up. When Juan de sooka and i measured it, the mast was tilted 3 degrees, pribably to ensure cleaner foiling(turbulence) for the rear wing by tilting it slightly.
Its fun to disect how the designers solve these problems. Many ways to skin a cat.

3InletsWindsports
Frequent Poster
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:52 am
Local Beach: Shallow Inlet, Corner Inlet, Andersons inlet.
Favorite Beaches: Shallow Inlet, Point Danger.
Style: freeride
Gear: Zeeko
Brand Affiliation: Zeeko importer in Australia
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:21 am

I use my XXLW spitfire with a 90cm mast with the Windfoil base plate.
Top speed before front foot pressure starts burning calf muscle is 18kts.
The std wings are on my std spitfire mast.
I love the std wings for jumping and bigger faster waves.
But way more pitch sensitive and you have to get going and consciously speed up to get up on foil.

The XXLW wings are foiling as soon as there is forward movement and on flat water you can pretend to be on a wave carving up and down.
I only use 1 kite ( 8m Notus Air on 28m lines) and Min wind speed for Std is 12kts, XXLW 11kts.

The carving turns are fun but by nature a longer turn. But pivot turns are doable but that lay over feel and feeling wing breach surface sort of rule.
When I see videos of geriatric foilers putting all that effort into forcing their turns, I feel sorry for them.


There was someone that mixed std front wing with XLW rear and liked it.

It can be pumped but I believe it’s a different technique than commonly seen.

User avatar
JakeFarley
Frequent Poster
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:54 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Florida Left Coast, USA
Favorite Beaches: Any that are not crowded.
Style: Dinosaur style (Velociraptor)
Gear: Kites: Flysurfer Speed5 21m, Soul 12m, Cabrinha 16m Xbow, 11m Xbow, Best 14m HP Nemesis, 9m Yarga C Hybrid
Boards: Crazyfly 135 x 46 Pro, Cabrinha Spoiler 140, 6' custom surfboard, 122 x 46 custom twintip, custom 140 x 50 strapless twintip/skim
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Pearl City
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby JakeFarley » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:41 pm

Anyone tried wingfoiling with the spitfire xxlw or xxl wings?

Also, Onofoil added their canard foil to their website after I inquired about the Raven. A bit more pricey than Spitfire.

juandesooka
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1064
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:05 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Sooke, BC, Canada
Style: Canada's Kai Lenny (in my mind)
Gear: Ocean Rodeo / Spitfire Foil / GoFoil / Ozone wings
Brand Affiliation: Open to offers
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby juandesooka » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:18 pm

Onofoils...not seeing it on their site still? https://www.onofoil.com/foils But there is a page on canards generally, here's a link to the Progression Project podcast, canard info 34:40

3Inlet: my experience with regular and XXLW mirror yours. The XXLW is super stable and solid, though a little slow. The XLW is best in show so far....fast, super turney, doesn't drop off foil too easy, jumps nice....sounds like that is the "just right" option you need. :D

JakeF: I intend to give XXLW a shot with my wingfoil, but I very much doubt it will work unless completely lit up. I mostly ride a GF Maliko 200, all my experiments with smaller wings have been marginally unsuccessful....work ok if super powered, but much harder to get on foil. I'd like to try the XXLW surf foiling, but only have 36" mast....and don't really care enough to invest in a new shorter mast or jerry rig another to fit. Atomic C is making copies, so maybe try that one.

3InletsWindsports
Frequent Poster
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:52 am
Local Beach: Shallow Inlet, Corner Inlet, Andersons inlet.
Favorite Beaches: Shallow Inlet, Point Danger.
Style: freeride
Gear: Zeeko
Brand Affiliation: Zeeko importer in Australia
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Spitfire-cannards in general

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:29 am

I have used my XXLW Windfoiling
I have just got my Ypsilon wings and had one day of usable wind since they arrived.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cwood, flaps1111, Qiter and 5 guests