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Foil for beginning and carving

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:17 pm

The Moses 633 with an 91 cm mast, then you got a really good combo.

Not very fast, and not what I would choose for flat water because of this, but fits your question perfectly.

A relatively big wing, low aspect.

Any of these wings (if a well designed foil, but most are) will give you an easy foil that turns fast and can ride slow, and very stable.

8) Peter
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby Onda » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:31 pm

I was in exactly the same position like you two years ago, and i got the W633/onda with 91 cm mast and the "Skate" board of Groove Kiteboarding.
I´m completely happy with it and can´t imagine that it will ever get boring. Super stable, can go really slow, very easy to turn, riding small waves is super fun. It turns so tight that I can have fun on an area of maybe 100 x 100 m of water surface for hours :D
I have no comparison to other foils as it is my first one and I have never tried anything else.

The North Sonar sounds / looks very seductive, though. Would like to try it...
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby elmarco » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:34 pm

I've ridden about 25 different foils from 600cm to 1600cm.
I would scratch the 633 off that list, it is too slow and too locked in my opinion, more of a beginner wing and sounds like you want to push beyond that.

I'm currently on the airush 800cm free ride carbon monocoque wing, and it's blown me away. I've always had a smaller wing in my quiver, but rarely used it in the past as you mentioned it being too twitchy or unstable. This thing does NOT feel like 800cm. Lift, stability and speed it feels more like a 1000, but it has a very slippery efficient feel to it that makes learning transitions so much easier. Bigger wings I find have too much drag and the kite can pull you off the board, this thing has no problem keeping up, yet is stable when you want it to be and very forgiving when switching feet.
It locks in when you want it to, but carves like mad when you want it to.
https://airush.com/boards/freeride-foil-v2/

If I was to choose one from the list you posted, I'd go with the f-one mirage, but I'd still choose the airush mono 800 over the mirage.

Good luck!
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:40 pm

Precisely my point elmarco, personally I would go for a tad smaller thus faster and more fun wing, when flat water.

They are still easy to jibe and make transitions at quite low speed, so just as he said, unless a beginner (not wanting a long term foil), I would aim for something around 800 to 1000 cm2 with 75 kg :thumb:

But in your post, you seek something that can go REALLY slow and easy, and here the 633 or similar is spot on.

8) Peter
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby windmlv » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:20 pm

Finally on the Moses 633 this January after flailing for too many years on the Spotz2.
Very, very happy with it. There is a reason it is so popular.
Got rid of my foil kites as well, back to the LEI's.
My personal fun factor has gone up tremendously.
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby cwood » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:48 pm

633 is much loved....679 or 683 are a titch more sporty and more boostable but have lots of the feel of the 633. Paired with the race stab is a perfect combo in my opinion. I am either on Race high AR or the 679 for slower play.

BUT...the main reason, in my opinion, to go with the Moses is the focus on foils and the interchange of MANY wing options. You will want to try other styles. Any brand with a side dish of foils (kites, boards etc etc and a foil line) will never have the diversity of wing choices of a pure foil maker.

You are investing in a system.
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby Flyboy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:30 am

Value for money the obvious choice is a Gong foil. As Peter Frank said, at your weight you don't need anything bigger than 1000 sq cm, especially in flat water, so an Mpro will fit your needs perfectly. Gong has a complete range of wings/masts at outstanding prices.
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby iwave » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:10 am

Thanks everybody for your comments, it is all very helpful.

I see 2 main opinions:
1. Those that really enjoy their Moses 633 for the same program I mentioned, and recommend it.
2. And those who think I might not need as big as the 633 (1250 cm2), especially if mainly flat water.

The 633 is 1250 cm2. Because I am <75kg, I thought it could be a little too big for me. So I was leaning towards 1000 cm2. Maybe a foil in the 800 to 1000 range would not lose so much in the low-end at my weight compare to the 633 but would gain in agility and fun factor (as you get better). I think that's what some of the comments were saying.

I am still a little hesitant to begin with a 800 cm2 foil though. For example: Maybe after 1 or 2 years of practice, those would be the better foils to ride. But I am not sure it would be the better foils to get you there. But I may be totally wrong and 800 cm2 is more than enough to begin with. What do you think?

So maybe the sweet spot is 900 to 1000? For example: A question about the Gong, in the description it says: "the Wing for the Pros and the highly experienced, who maneuver at high speed and pump when gliding". It seems this wing is designed for the surf, so it's craving for speed. Would it still be good for low-speed maneuvers and carving?

Has anyone some comments about the Duotone Spirit Carve? I read some good reviews about it in magazines, in particular for the program I mentioned, but I'd like to hear what day-to-day riders have to say about it.
Last edited by iwave on Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby cwood » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:33 am

Moses 679 is exactly what you describe. About 1000cm.
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby TomW » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:40 pm

If you get the gong get: pro M , surf stab 40cm, 90 cm alu mast.
Don't get the 70cm mast or the 40cm kite stab that's spec'd on the kitesurfing setup.
100cm carbon mast is too much in beginning.

I rode moses 633 for 2 years. Great foil. Then tried gong M pro. It's a bit smaller and higher aspect. Same stability but just a tad faster and more glide. More durable too.

Theres a lot of good foils now. agree it's good to choose foil that offers system components.
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