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Foil for beginning and carving

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gmb13
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby gmb13 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:44 pm

iwave wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:10 am
Thanks everybody for your comments, it is all very helpful.

I see 2 main opinions:
1. Those that really enjoy their Moses 633 for the same program I mentioned, and recommend it.
2. And those who think I might not need as big as the 633 (1250 cm2), especially if mainly flat water.

I have a friend that has a 633 and really enjoys it. But he is bigger than me, and I was actually wondering if 1250 could be a little too big for me. So I was leaning towards 1000 cm2. Maybe a foil in the 800 to 1000 range would not lose so much in the low-end at my weight compare to the 633 but would gain in agility and fun factor (as you get better). I think that's what some of the comments were saying.

I am still a little hesitant to begin with a 800 cm2 foil though. For example: Maybe after 1 or 2 years of practice, those would be the better foils to ride. But I am not sure it would be the better foils to get you there. But I may be totally wrong and 800 cm2 is more than enough to begin with. What do you think?

I meant the 1150 or 1650 not the 850 Sonar.

--
Gunnar
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby marlboroughman » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:52 pm

I bought Naish 1050, had 17 sessions on it and making rapid progress. When I go side by side with my buddy on Moses 633 I notice no difference in speed and if I decide to step on it I manage to overtake. I hit the reef couple of times and with Naish not a problem, minimal sanding and back on the water. With full carbon stuff incidents like these end in tears.
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby Flyboy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:06 pm

iwave wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:10 am
Thanks everybody for your comments, it is all very helpful.

I see 2 main opinions:
1. Those that really enjoy their Moses 633 for the same program I mentioned, and recommend it.
2. And those who think I might not need as big as the 633 (1250 cm2), especially if mainly flat water.

I have a friend that has a 633 and really enjoys it. But he is bigger than me, and I was actually wondering if 1250 could be a little too big for me. So I was leaning towards 1000 cm2. Maybe a foil in the 800 to 1000 range would not lose so much in the low-end at my weight compare to the 633 but would gain in agility and fun factor (as you get better). I think that's what some of the comments were saying.

I am still a little hesitant to begin with a 800 cm2 foil though. For example: Maybe after 1 or 2 years of practice, those would be the better foils to ride. But I am not sure it would be the better foils to get you there. But I may be totally wrong and 800 cm2 is more than enough to begin with. What do you think?

So maybe the sweet spot is 900 to 1000? For example: A question about the Gong, in the description it says: "the Wing for the Pros and the highly experienced, who maneuver at high speed and pump when gliding". It seems this wing is designed for the surf, so it's craving for speed. Would it still be good for low-speed maneuvers and carving?

Has anyone some comments about the Duotone Spirit Carve? I read some good reviews about it in magazines, in particular for the program I mentioned, but I'd like to hear what day-to-day riders have to say about it.
Any of the foils you list would be fine for your purposes. Even a 800cm wing would work well for learning - you will still have plenty of lift for your weight, however a bit larger will make it easier to learn transitions. A 1250cm wing will make transitions easier still, but you will sacrifice speed.

I am 80 kg & the MPro Gong gets me up in 8 - 10 knots with a 11m wave kite. Below that, the kite becomes the governing factor.

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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby RalfsB » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:24 pm

TomW wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:40 pm
If you get the gong get: pro M , surf stab 40cm, 90 cm alu mast.
Don't get the 70cm mast or the 40cm kite stab that's spec'd on the kitesurfing setup.
I got the gong 70cm carbon mast and love it, perfect for my local conditions.
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iwave
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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby iwave » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:14 pm

RalfsB wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:24 pm
TomW wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:40 pm
If you get the gong get: pro M , surf stab 40cm, 90 cm alu mast.
Don't get the 70cm mast or the 40cm kite stab that's spec'd on the kitesurfing setup.
I got the gong 70cm carbon mast and love it, perfect for my local conditions.
Do you use the 70 cm mast for flat water or waves?
The Gong carbon monobloc setup for their mast + fuselage looks really nice. I wonder why more companies is not doing that.
That's why I thought, if I go with Gong, I have to go with their carbon monobloc mast.
On the over hand, one downside is that the carbon monobloc mast is only available in 2 sizes: 70 cm and 100 cm.
I thought the 70 cm would be much easier to learn on.
But we have a lot of chops at my local conditions, and sometimes quite nasty chops. And I wonder if 70cm could be 10-15cm too short when the chop is bad.
Last edited by iwave on Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby iwave » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:39 pm

cwood wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:48 pm
633 is much loved....679 or 683 are a titch more sporty and more boostable but have lots of the feel of the 633. Paired with the race stab is a perfect combo in my opinion. I am either on Race high AR or the 679 for slower play.

BUT...the main reason, in my opinion, to go with the Moses is the focus on foils and the interchange of MANY wing options. You will want to try other styles. Any brand with a side dish of foils (kites, boards etc etc and a foil line) will never have the diversity of wing choices of a pure foil maker.

You are investing in a system.
You are right, I did not pay attention to the 679 before, but it seems to fit the bill pretty well.
It seems the 683 is not produced anymore (I don't see it on the Moses website).

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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby iwave » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:42 pm

TomW wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:40 pm
If you get the gong get: pro M , surf stab 40cm, 90 cm alu mast.
Don't get the 70cm mast or the 40cm kite stab that's spec'd on the kitesurfing setup.
100cm carbon mast is too much in beginning.

I rode moses 633 for 2 years. Great foil. Then tried gong M pro. It's a bit smaller and higher aspect. Same stability but just a tad faster and more glide. More durable too.

Theres a lot of good foils now. agree it's good to choose foil that offers system components.
Thanks, that's quite helpful.
Just to be sure, the link I shared for the 40 cm stab is the surf version (I think). So that would be the right stab to associate with the Surf Pro M, right?

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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby iwave » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:51 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:44 pm
iwave wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:10 am
Thanks everybody for your comments, it is all very helpful.

I see 2 main opinions:
1. Those that really enjoy their Moses 633 for the same program I mentioned, and recommend it.
2. And those who think I might not need as big as the 633 (1250 cm2), especially if mainly flat water.

I have a friend that has a 633 and really enjoys it. But he is bigger than me, and I was actually wondering if 1250 could be a little too big for me. So I was leaning towards 1000 cm2. Maybe a foil in the 800 to 1000 range would not lose so much in the low-end at my weight compare to the 633 but would gain in agility and fun factor (as you get better). I think that's what some of the comments were saying.

I am still a little hesitant to begin with a 800 cm2 foil though. For example: Maybe after 1 or 2 years of practice, those would be the better foils to ride. But I am not sure it would be the better foils to get you there. But I may be totally wrong and 800 cm2 is more than enough to begin with. What do you think?

I meant the 1150 or 1650 not the 850 Sonar.

--
Gunnar
Hi Gunnar,
I wanted to emphasize that the Sonar 850 would fit well in the 800-900 category, and it seems to match the low/med-speed carving program quite well.

If the goal is to look for the beat trade-off between early lift and lively carving, do you think 1650, or even the 1150, would hit the mark? More than the 850?

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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby iwave » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:54 pm

cwood wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:33 am
Moses 679 is exactly what you describe. About 1000cm.
You are right, thanks for pointing that out.
The dimensions of the 679 is also pretty close to the Gong Surf Pro M. The might behave similarly.
Last edited by iwave on Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Foil for beginning and carving

Postby iwave » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:57 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:44 pm
iwave wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:10 am
Thanks everybody for your comments, it is all very helpful.

I see 2 main opinions:
1. Those that really enjoy their Moses 633 for the same program I mentioned, and recommend it.
2. And those who think I might not need as big as the 633 (1250 cm2), especially if mainly flat water.

I have a friend that has a 633 and really enjoys it. But he is bigger than me, and I was actually wondering if 1250 could be a little too big for me. So I was leaning towards 1000 cm2. Maybe a foil in the 800 to 1000 range would not lose so much in the low-end at my weight compare to the 633 but would gain in agility and fun factor (as you get better). I think that's what some of the comments were saying.

I am still a little hesitant to begin with a 800 cm2 foil though. For example: Maybe after 1 or 2 years of practice, those would be the better foils to ride. But I am not sure it would be the better foils to get you there. But I may be totally wrong and 800 cm2 is more than enough to begin with. What do you think?

I meant the 1150 or 1650 not the 850 Sonar.

--
Gunnar
Hi Gunnar,
I wanted to emphasize that the Sonar 850 would fit well in the 800-900 category, and it seems to match the low/med-speed carving program quite well.

If the goal is to look for the best trade-off between early lift and lively carving, do you think 1650, or even the 1150, would hit the mark? More than the 850?


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