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my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

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papasmerf
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my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby papasmerf » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:37 am

i am on a couple year old cabrinha double agent, has an aluminum mast,, (i'm currentlly using the shorter one,, i have a longer one) but has carbon foil front and back. not sure on size.

i've got 4 good days of kitefoiling and finally figured out the foot placement and getting a feel for everything, i can stay up out of the water for the most part going dominant foot forward,, and going dominant foot rear, i can defintely cruise along. gybes,,,no way.

anyway,,, a very good foil guy came to my beach,, i was the only other person foiling and he came out and watched me and gave me some pointers,,,said my board was angled way far nose up,,,so i thought easy solution is to put more weight on front foot but then i just go down onto the water. and i did notice my back leg would get tired faster, like i had too much weight on it,,,but if put more weight on front,,, like i said,, it just lands,,, is there a way to have a level board while you are cruising along?

there is no way to adjust the positon of the foil mast,,,so what am i doing wrong

also,, other thing that is touchy is i sometimes hear a little turbulence and then the foil comes out of the water and i just drop like a rock. does this mean i am ready for longer mast ,, cause i don't feel like i am,,, or am i doing something else wrong.

appreciate any input.

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Re: my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby Flyboy » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:12 am

The board should be more or less level. When you're starting out you have to learn to make small adjustments to your weighting. This becomes instinctive after a while, but at first you may find that you are over-reacting with your weighting. With practice you will find the sweet spot. Remember you can adjust trim by foot pressure & by the weighting of your upper body. Also sheet out/depower the kite if you feel the foil rising too much.

If you're successfully on foil you should probably go to the longer mast as it will give you a greater margin of error to avoid breaching the foil. Like anything else, it just takes time & practice to get more comfortable.
Last edited by Flyboy on Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:32 am

Flyboy is right, and it'll come over time.

I have noticed it quite often too, with new hydrofoilers, they can ride with the board sticking "up" in a crazy angle.
Especially with low AR wings like the Double Agent.

The reason is,beginners (have to) use maybe 2 or 3 sizes bigger kites than necessary, so they can "hang" under the kite, going really slow, but without stalling the wing totally.

This also answers your other question papasmerf, the turbulence you can feel or hear, is because the wing is semistalled.

Meaning it rides at a higher angle than it should, but the power from the kite can keep you there.
Untill suddenly it drops down again, stalled.
A low AR wing can ride at extreme angles, without stalling, that is the plus side.
But it does not ride correctly, very inefficient and needs lots of power, and it has huge drag in this state.

Nothing wrong with your mast, a short or long will all work.

What you experience is pretty normal when learning.

Just keep going, learn to ride with smaller kites gradually, as then you can ride the wing and board at the "correct" more flat angle now, without going too fast and getting out of control.
You could also add some line extensions, as this will give you the ability to get power to start, and then easy to ride level because of a smaller kite.

Short version is, you are too powered, and you push the board too much up, to be able to ride without going too fast either.
As Flyboy wrote, very subtle adjustments on your weighting is needed and difficult, will take a long time, but suddenly it works :thumb:

8) Peter
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Re: my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:03 pm

Go faster.
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Re: my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby grigorib » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:29 pm

As a beginner foiler you might be going too slow using the wing to deflect water down rather than to actually fly. That needs higher angle of attack, hence the board nose is up. As Kamikuza said - fly faster

A very short mast (40cm or so) makes it really hard to keep the wing under surface but for anything longer you should be able to control height you’re flying on without breaching.
But progressing to longer mast is also a good thing.

Both issues get resolved with more practice. Just keep riding
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Re: my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby Flyboy » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:00 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:32 am


I have noticed it quite often too, with new hydrofoilers, they can ride with the board sticking "up" in a crazy angle.
Yes, now I remember. The only place I have watched a number of new foilers was Cabarete & I noticed that some of them were riding like that - slow & angled. What PF says makes sense ... also I wonder if using a shorter mast makes it more likely to ride like that, as it allows for less commitment to the foil? In a way it's like watching beginners on a TT - they often ride really slow as they point too high because they are afraid to use the power of the kite.

Touching the nose down is a result of suddenly bringing your weight too far forward relative to your speed/AOA. You need to bring your weight forward, but subtly. Kangarooing the board up & down is a sign of this. With time & practice you learn to modulate your weight shifting & from being really difficult ... it becomes instinctive & easy. Amazing how that works! :thumb:

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Re: my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby papasmerf » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:29 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:03 pm
Go faster.
I'm ascared to! but i know that is what i should do..

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Re: my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:36 am

papasmerf wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:29 am
Kamikuza wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:03 pm
Go faster.
I'm ascared to! but i know that is what i should do..
I think it's been said, but the board is nosing up because the foil is near a low-speed stall. Like riding a bicycle, it'll actually be more stable and easier to ride when you speed up.

Or if you're not struggling, then don't worry about the angle of the board :D

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Re: my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby azoele » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:41 pm

First: don't give up!
It'll all come together eventually, and each session brings something more, even if at times it fell progress is going backwards.

As a novice myself, I second what the others said: if the angle of the board is too steep, you are going too slow and letting the kite "lift" you enough not to make the foil stall.
I know, because I do the very same mistake! :D
That is the only way you can go with such a tilt. If you do it at speed, you jump out of the water :lol:

You will have to learn to trust yourself on the foil, and acquire a bit more speed, enough for the foil to easily support you even in a level position.
It'll feel scary at first (the famous "runaway foil" which seems to keep accelerating! :D ) but as soon as you gain some speed, your board will naturally stay level.

As for breaching (the bubbling sound): it's probably you not yet having matured enough finesse in controlling your height on the foil.
A longer mast will mask (pardon the play of words) the issue, but won't solve it.
The solution (coming again by itself with time) is better control of your riding height.
Which will come *after* you'll have mastered not going with a tilted board :)

Have fun, and good luck :thumb:
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Re: my foil board is angled up while foiling,,,i'm new at this

Postby tautologies » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:28 pm

yeah PF just said everything that I wanted to say.
This will be easy for you. Go faster.

Note that if you go faster you might crash, but you'll discover it is not that dangerous. On a foil, once you start losing control / falling, just fall. Do not try to force it. You want to fall with the foil not towards it and trying to force it will increase the chance of you falling towards the foil.


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