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Gong Veloce impressions

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azoele
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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby azoele » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:07 pm

Hi,

Both Veloce M on 100 carbon mast and Pro M on aluminum mast sink. They sink about same speed.
Whether that is " quick" or " slow" sinking, i dont know because i have not used any other sinking set-ups for more that a 15-20 min and that only few times.
I dont find it difficult. I can actually line up kite for start, release board and put up feet and as board is sinking, time my kite movement to rise up on board as it sinks, in syncronisation.
Note the Veloce M has 1/2 the volume of the Pro M, So its not inconcievable that that Pro M might float somewhat on the 100cm mast. have not tried that yet.

Yes, the Moses 91cm mast and 633 wing will float forever, and I started to get irritated about that as i started to learn more advance transitions and falling off more often. The floating on side advantage while starting was quicky outwieghed by the disadvantage of having to drag upwind to get the board.
Thanks again, Tom, you have been a treasure trove of information.

Yes, the foil not sinking can be annoying, especially recovering it in light wind when there's chop: currents drag me downwind while the buoying foil seems to remain unperturbed, and always get a bit farther away...

Still, I find the 633 buoyancy very useful when waterstarting: at times I body drag to the foil, turn my body in the water while still dragging, touch the board with the feet and off I start!
To me, holding the board with one hand to prevent the foil from sinking is a no go: I am (sigh) too fat for that, so I can't crunch enough to reach the board comfortably with one hand and the bar with the other, hence the preference for floating foils... :(

Thank you again.

TomW
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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby TomW » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:22 pm

azoele wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:07 pm
Hi,

Both Veloce M on 100 carbon mast and Pro M on aluminum mast sink. They sink about same speed.
Whether that is " quick" or " slow" sinking, i dont know because i have not used any other sinking set-ups for more that a 15-20 min and that only few times.
I dont find it difficult. I can actually line up kite for start, release board and put up feet and as board is sinking, time my kite movement to rise up on board as it sinks, in syncronisation.
Note the Veloce M has 1/2 the volume of the Pro M, So its not inconcievable that that Pro M might float somewhat on the 100cm mast. have not tried that yet.

Yes, the Moses 91cm mast and 633 wing will float forever, and I started to get irritated about that as i started to learn more advance transitions and falling off more often. The floating on side advantage while starting was quicky outwieghed by the disadvantage of having to drag upwind to get the board.
Thanks again, Tom, you have been a treasure trove of information.

Yes, the foil not sinking can be annoying, especially recovering it in light wind when there's chop: currents drag me downwind while the buoying foil seems to remain unperturbed, and always get a bit farther away...

Still, I find the 633 buoyancy very useful when waterstarting: at times I body drag to the foil, turn my body in the water while still dragging, touch the board with the feet and off I start!
To me, holding the board with one hand to prevent the foil from sinking is a no go: I am (sigh) too fat for that, so I can't crunch enough to reach the board comfortably with one hand and the bar with the other, hence the preference for floating foils... :(

Thank you again.
Hej man, I can sympathize. I don't have a high BMI, but I have very low flexibility in my entire body. When I was 20 a physiologist at my university tested us in a running class. She said I had the flexibility of a 40 year old...its only gotten worse. Stretching for me is an extreme sport, and yoga is a torture method the CIA uses.
I tilt the board up, legs straight down in water. Nose of board pointing down wind, kite towards side I am not going to start. Get horizontal with legs downwind and parallel with the board, still holding board with back hand. Give the tail of the board a little shove away and lift back foot up then front while diving kite.. I cant hold the board with my feet on it. No way.
I'm not a physically talented person, so I believe its entirely possible for anyone.

I should do a video. "Strapless water start on sinking foil for flex challenged people "

ladomi
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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby ladomi » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:36 pm

TomW wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:22 pm
azoele wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:07 pm
Hi,
I dont find it difficult. I can actually line up kite for start, release board and put up feet and as board is sinking, time my kite movement to rise up on board as it sinks, in syncronisation.

Still, I find the 633 buoyancy very useful when waterstarting: at times I body drag to the foil, turn my body in the water while still dragging, touch the board with the feet and off I start!
To me, holding the board with one hand to prevent the foil from sinking is a no go: I am (sigh) too fat for that, so I can't crunch enough to reach the board comfortably with one hand and the bar with the other, hence the preference for floating foils... :(

Thank you again.
I tilt the board up, legs straight down in water. Nose of board pointing down wind, kite towards side I am not going to start. Get horizontal with legs downwind and parallel with the board, still holding board with back hand. Give the tail of the board a little shove away and lift back foot up then front while diving kite.. I cant hold the board with my feet on it. No way.

I should do a video. "Strapless water start on sinking foil for flex challenged people "
Have you tried waterstarting just like you would a strapless surfboard with your feet just laying on top of the board? There is a little bit of a technique but it is possible. That's how I start with my 130 board and slingshot hoverglide foil (super heavy).

Michaelr123
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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby Michaelr123 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:46 pm

If someone that doesn't have any carbon yet (76 infinity on a 30" aluminum mast) wanted to look at something in full carbon, would you guys recommend one of these complete carbon pedestal/mast/fuses from gong and say a veloce M and a freewave or Carve to get started with?

I'd really like to get into a faster wing, and I'm planning on getting the 65 infinity for this fall to practice on with a 35" slingshot mast, but for next spring I'd like to looking into something in full carbon. I think I'd prefer a 90cm mast for lake riding, but it sounds like that's not happening. I was looking at a Moses 590 setup as my entry into a full carbon setup, but the reviews on all of Gong's equipment has been so positive. Thoughts?

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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby TomW » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:39 pm

The 590 moses is the only one I can compare to. Rode one for 50 hours. The Veloce m with carbon mast/fuse and Veloce 43 stab is comparable, but will start earlier. I'm really enjoying the 100cm mast and won't go back to 90 cm.

Today I bolted the pro m and 40 cm surf stab to the 100 cm carbon mast. Its considerably more stable in roll and yaw. Same pitch feeling as veloce. Pops out of the water faster. Maneuverability is very similar. The veloce accelerates and is faster. About 4km/ hr on average.
The pro m is super fun foil and has magical balance and feeling. If you want 20% more excitement, get the Veloce.

Now I'm going to bolt on the 40cm kite stab with pro m front wing and compare.

I'm fairly certain I'll use the veloce m from now on. Its a great step up from the pro m, but still a large wing with all those advantages.

The pro m on carbon mast does float a long time on its side. 30% of the time it stayed on its side when I fell.
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azoele
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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby azoele » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:14 pm

TomW wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:22 pm
azoele wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:07 pm
Hi,

Both Veloce M on 100 carbon mast and Pro M on aluminum mast sink. They sink about same speed.
Whether that is " quick" or " slow" sinking, i dont know because i have not used any other sinking set-ups for more that a 15-20 min and that only few times.
I dont find it difficult. I can actually line up kite for start, release board and put up feet and as board is sinking, time my kite movement to rise up on board as it sinks, in syncronisation.
Note the Veloce M has 1/2 the volume of the Pro M, So its not inconcievable that that Pro M might float somewhat on the 100cm mast. have not tried that yet.

Yes, the Moses 91cm mast and 633 wing will float forever, and I started to get irritated about that as i started to learn more advance transitions and falling off more often. The floating on side advantage while starting was quicky outwieghed by the disadvantage of having to drag upwind to get the board.
Thanks again, Tom, you have been a treasure trove of information.

Yes, the foil not sinking can be annoying, especially recovering it in light wind when there's chop: currents drag me downwind while the buoying foil seems to remain unperturbed, and always get a bit farther away...

Still, I find the 633 buoyancy very useful when waterstarting: at times I body drag to the foil, turn my body in the water while still dragging, touch the board with the feet and off I start!
To me, holding the board with one hand to prevent the foil from sinking is a no go: I am (sigh) too fat for that, so I can't crunch enough to reach the board comfortably with one hand and the bar with the other, hence the preference for floating foils... :(

Thank you again.
Hej man, I can sympathize. I don't have a high BMI, but I have very low flexibility in my entire body. When I was 20 a physiologist at my university tested us in a running class. She said I had the flexibility of a 40 year old...its only gotten worse. Stretching for me is an extreme sport, and yoga is a torture method the CIA uses.
I tilt the board up, legs straight down in water. Nose of board pointing down wind, kite towards side I am not going to start. Get horizontal with legs downwind and parallel with the board, still holding board with back hand. Give the tail of the board a little shove away and lift back foot up then front while diving kite.. I cant hold the board with my feet on it. No way.
I'm not a physically talented person, so I believe its entirely possible for anyone.

I should do a video. "Strapless water start on sinking foil for flex challenged people "
Tom, given your description of different foils riding and transitions (implying you truly have sensitivity and ability), I can only compliment you on your skills despite your hindrance.
I'm muscular, but very heavy with a large belly, so resort to other tricks to foil: I love the 633 "waiting for me" on its side, I reach it with the pull of the kite and my legs already extended, and as soon as my feet touch the board one downloop and I'm foiling.
To protect my knees I usually have the kite fly downward without power, and only pull the bar when it's pointing upwards in the loop, so it will drag me to my feet with almost no leg effort.

Tricks for us with bodies less perfects than what we usually see on youtube videos :)

My Gong L Pro has been sent: should be here next week.
Can't wait to try it!!!

Michaelr123
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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby Michaelr123 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:50 pm

Thanks Tom,

So it sounds like they'd be similar. essentially I could order a new veloce set or find a used Moses 590/330 for about the same price. I'm skeptical of another 5 inches (or 10 from where I'm at) but maybe it's not that bad. A few guys ride 100-110 masts around here. There happens to be a Moses set for sail right now which has me interested. I'm stuck in the position of spending $400-500 on a slingshot 65 wing to keep progressing, or I could take that money and move into a carbon setup. I think I'll go to carbon either way. Do you think the stepping stone makes sense or should I skip it?

Michaelr123
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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby Michaelr123 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:56 pm

I guess the other piece is Moses offers faster wings yet (de tuned race wings). How fast have people been able to push the veloce? I saw some numbers over 30kts, and I'm interested in being able to move into racing, would this change your opinion?

TomW
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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby TomW » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:27 pm

Michaelr123 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:56 pm
I guess the other piece is Moses offers faster wings yet (de tuned race wings). How fast have people been able to push the veloce? I saw some numbers over 30kts, and I'm interested in being able to move into racing, would this change your opinion?
You can't go wrong with the Moses. I'd get the 101 cm Moses mast if it's locally available. The masts are expensive and after vacillating a year about getting a 100cm , and everyone telling me to do it, I now know they were right. It's not more difficult than 90, but adds that extra bit of angle and buffer in chop, actually making transitions easier. If the 101 isn't available the 91 will suit fine.
The Moses mast take 2 different fuselage for kiting. The kite and surf fuselage. The 590 fits the kite fuselage. Then they have the 695 wing which is a bit bigger, still fitting the kite fuselage. If you want to use the 633 or other surf wings, ( they have one similar to Veloce called 679 ( I think) then you need the surf fuselage too.
Using kite fuselage, you can then move to smaller and substantially faster racy wings that Gong doesn't make and probably never will.

TomW
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Hyperlink V2 9m, 13m
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Re: Gong Veloce impressions

Postby TomW » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:49 pm

So yesterday did session on m pro with 40 surf stab and 100 cm CF mast. 7m kite 1 m waves with chop on top. It was" energetic" session.
This morning bolted on the Veloce M again. 9m kite, more relaxed conditions, but fully powered.
Same kind waves left over from a few really windy days.
It's clear that I prefer the Veloce M. I'll probably sell my m pro alu mast set-up.
Travelling will be a bit more trouble. But the bag provided with foil I can probably get my pocket board, mast/fuse and wings in it with some foam padding modification. Nice bag actually. Will still have to pay for excess baggage. But who knows when we'll be able to travel again..:(


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