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Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

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Peter_Frank
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Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:51 pm

Well, just as the title says, at which windspeed do you find riding waves becomes less fun and not possible DTL?

If wind is side-on or quite sideshore.

For me it turns around when it gets down close to 10 knots.

When 8-10 knots, I can not ride with a Peak4 5 m2 nomore, nor a 7 m2 tube with a tad longer lines.

Riding with a 9-10 m2 tube, or 8 m2 Peak4, riding waves simply does not work max for me anymore :(

I can ride quite far down in front of the wave, carve around, and hit the wave for the cutback again - but I can NOT turn downwind on the wave, and back, without having the kite drop or go too slack...

Even with the well drifting 8 m2 Peak4, I need to fly it down a bit, to get speed for the kite in the bottom turn on the waveface, so it can not be redirected sufficiently fast for the cutback split seconds later...
Same goes with a bigger tubekite, and it might even drop with slack lines, unlike the Peak.

Have tried with both shorter or longer lines, but does not help.

So around 10 knots, I can ride down the wavefaces in S turns toeside or regular just fine, but I can not go DTL around bottom turn cutbacks, like I can from 11 to 12 knots and up.
Of course fun to be out "riding" the waves, but mileages apart from when it is 12 knots and above, where it is a totally new ballgame of fun an choosing any line you want.

Curious as to what others have found out regarding this.

At 77 kg 10-11 knots seems to be the range where it goes from possible and fun, to awesome waveriding fun, for me.

8) Peter

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Re: Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby plummet » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:53 pm

I'm a wind junky. Bring on the wind. I can kite waves 10-12 knots like you suggest. But I want 20 knots.
Ok 16+ is super sweet.

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Re: Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:58 pm

plummet wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:53 pm
I'm a wind junky. Bring on the wind. I can kite waves 10-12 knots like you suggest. But I want 20 knots.
Ok 16+ is super sweet.

How do you do that?

As I recall you got a quite small wing, and steep waves, so going DTL in 10 knots where you accelerate to crazy speeds in the turn downwind on the wave, is incredible !
Which kitesize and linelengths and technique do you use?

I have never seen this done, but might be I am missing something, at least not possible for me at all in 10 knots :(
In 12 knots, yes, but not in 10, even with my 1200 wing.

The details in how you can manage this, is really interesting, and what this thread is all about.

Unless you meant you could "only" ride waves less freely in only 10-12 knots, and not high on the wave DTL?

8) Peter

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Re: Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby TheJoe » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:23 pm

For me it has to be at least 20mph. We have strong currents and we need some wind to really have a chance. I am learning to foil so that number will get a lot lower soon.

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Re: Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby plummet » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:38 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:58 pm
plummet wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:53 pm
I'm a wind junky. Bring on the wind. I can kite waves 10-12 knots like you suggest. But I want 20 knots.
Ok 16+ is super sweet.

How do you do that?

As I recall you got a quite small wing, and steep waves, so going DTL in 10 knots where you accelerate to crazy speeds in the turn downwind on the wave, is incredible !
Which kitesize and linelengths and technique do you use?

I have never seen this done, but might be I am missing something, at least not possible for me at all in 10 knots :(
In 12 knots, yes, but not in 10, even with my 1200 wing.

The details in how you can manage this, is really interesting, and what this thread is all about.

Unless you meant you could "only" ride waves less freely in only 10-12 knots, and not high on the wave DTL?

8) Peter
I might have excited you unduly with lack of info.

I have waves from tiddlers to slow lazy waves to big fast monsters.
The 10-12 knot days that i can be bothered kiting. Usually has a lazy shallow point break wave that is sweet on a sup or a foil, cross to cross on. You can run slow and turn sharp on the wave face if you want to.

On those days I will be on an 8m enduro standard line length which i think is 25m???? or maybe 23.
I will loop the like like crazy to run down the line. Sometimes i purposefully run directly at the kite slack lining it so it starts to fall out of the sky, lines falling into the water. Then just before the kite hits the water I cut back re-tension the lines and snap the kite back before the kite crashes.

Then rinse and repeat down the line, loop, slack line, cut back, snap kite back, loop, slack line, cut back etc.
You can argue that its not real wave riding as you do need to cut back and retension lines to stop the kite crashing. But if you work that into your moves on the wave then it can be reasonably seamless.

Also i am less interested with riding in the pocket like a surfer and more interested in faster bigger long board style high speed carves on and off the wave face. My style probably fails your wave riding specification!.... so all of the above is probably mute. That said, running fast DTL on and off the face with massive carves is probably harder to keep line tension that tight twisty close to pocket stuff.

Another interesting technique is the back stalled into the powerzone pivot loop. I sometimes do this on the 8m, but that is less successful.I'm more prone to do that in higher winds.

No matter what you do in 10-12 knots if you are running down wind faster than the wind you have to do those slack lining, techniques to keep the kite in the sky.

Interesting side note. Running downhill down wind in a kite buggy on a sand dune is very similar to dtl on waves.... its probably a little harder as there''s less resistance and more speed. That's where the purposefull slack line came from. Ín some instances you simply have to slack line and cut back to retention lines or you simply cannot ride that part of the dune. In that respect lei is far better than foil kite. though the single skins o drift real nice you still cant truely slack line them and expect a predictable snap back after a complete slack lining.

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Re: Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby Strekke » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:47 pm

Plummet do you have vids of you doing those maneuvers? Sounds pretty dope would love to see and learn

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Re: Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby plummet » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:06 am

Strekke wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:47 pm
Plummet do you have vids of you doing those maneuvers? Sounds pretty dope would love to see and learn

Sorry, I have nothing in the way of videos.

But board riding maui kite trickery gives you a similar idea.


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Re: Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:33 am

"good" is subjective...

14 knots and the wind will drive up enough swell on the lake that you can glide on it.

But ... more is more. When they're getting waist high they have enough power to ride as long as you can stay on them without the kite. That's around 18 knots is my guess...

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Re: Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:34 am

Agree, "good" is subjective.

But I believe most like to ride DTL carving around fully both ways, preferably quite high on the face, or close to the wave, or at least connected carves and not far between, as only choice in smaller waves.

Plummet is right though, that we dont need to stay "in the pocket" like surfers, but as a kitefoiler we got so much more space on the wave we can use :thumb:

Maybe the 11-12 knots is simply an almost fixed limit where most simply can not ride freely around nomore, because you get too close to the windspeed when going DTL?

It might be the case, and then not really that much about technique.

I still think tecnique is important when close to this range though, to make it work fluidly.

Yes, we got so many more options and angles on hydrofoils when in waves, great, and can ride in other less aggressive ways when sub 10 knots, but for me a very different style, and I find the fun really kicks in from 12 knots.

Actually not really much better if a lot more wind, it somehow simply starts to work as soon as the wind is above the level where you can ride without being limited because you can carve tight both ways without overtaking the wind :D

Maybe it is NOT as fixed, this is why I would like to hear from others, where they find it starts "not to work as good" DTL anymore?

8) Peter

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Re: Your minimum wind for good waveriding?

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:51 pm

All depends how much the swell comes up. 11-12 is a pretty weak swell, if at all -- at my local.

Get the best wave rides on a broad reach or training run, as the wind and waves rarely line up nicely and it's never cross shore.

I never surfed before so "not as good as" DTL is unknown. Good foilers and surfers I know (ok three of them) would rather go out on the surfboard once the wind is up.

I refer to the kite as "the party pooper" cos the best runs inevitably end up being aborted because the kite is going into the water. Until the wind picks up...


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