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Turbulence while riding

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matanshapira
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Re: Turbulence while riding

Postby matanshapira » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:38 am

Sounds like waves traveling through water is affecting lift/drag. Try smooth conditions and you'll notice the difference. Your brain will soon learn to automatically compensate so it'll be less annoying

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Re: Turbulence while riding

Postby matanshapira » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:39 am

Sounds like waves traveling through water is affecting lift/drag. Try smooth conditions and you'll notice the difference. Your brain will soon learn to automatically compensate so it'll be less annoying

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Re: Turbulence while riding

Postby Trent hink » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:13 am

I'm riding a cheap Chinese foil (Rupel, I think), and at this point it is pretty beat up.

If I am riding in flatwater it is super smooth. If there is a good chop, well, I'm riding in a 65cm strut so it takes a bit of concentration I guess.

The only time I really feel sort of a turbulence is when there is a medium chop bouncing off of the jetty. It doesn't happen in light wind, it only happens when there is enough chop to bounce the chop off the jetty, and in some wind directions with certian wave (chop) states

It feels weird, and maybe sounds weird, but when that condition happens I can feel it, but only when I am riding near the jetty in conditions where the chop is bouncing off of it. So when I go ride in other locations I never experience this sensation.

You might possibly experience the same thing in choppy conditions with a current running against the chop.

It's not like going through a boat wake, but it does feel a bit off, a bit disorienting....

If you are getting this feeling in some other type of conditions, I have no idea.

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flying grandpa
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Re: Turbulence while riding

Postby flying grandpa » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:39 am

Your problem, Erinhdisc, may be a matter of interaction between stab and front foil.
The shapes of both fols are identical, and stab may feel turbulece creatded by front foil.
Try to put stab above fuse.
If this doesn’t help, try to play with stab AoA.
Tadeusz

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Re: Turbulence while riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:08 am

flying grandpa wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:39 am
Your problem, Erinhdisc, may be a matter of interaction between stab and front foil.
The shapes of both fols are identical, and stab may feel turbulece creatded by front foil.
Try to put stab above fuse.
If this doesn’t help, try to play with stab AoA.
Tadeusz

It could be the reason yes.

It is just very odd he says pitch is not affected, only yaw and roll :wink:

All my foils, and other foils I have tried, ride butter smooth.
Only in the wake of a passing speedboat, or in the whitewater after a broken wave - EVERYTHING is crazy turbulent, roll and yaw and pitch :rollgrin:

Not fully true, once on a prototype with mast above the mast, instead of behind, it had yaw and roll issues yes.
But yours is not designed like that.

Must say I have no idea what it can be, since pitch is not affected in your scenario, and it is constant you say?

14 mph is a perfect speed for this wing size, not too fast nor slow, besides, speed should not influence unless extremely fast or slow.


You should take Tadeuz's advice though, and try changing stab height and if no help, AOA both ways to see if better :D

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Re: Turbulence while riding

Postby Foil » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:56 pm

all you have described I have experienced, and it has been due to a few different problems, one which is invisible and easy to fix, and the other which is visible and not so easy to fix.
The easy one to fix has been surface contamination, oils like suntan oil, transfering from hands to mast and wings or spf oils on hair transfering to the mast when carrying the board mast combo to the water with the mast resting on my shoulder, and the worst one is the tefgell grease used on the screws getting smeared on the wing surfaces and "removed" with a quick wipe,
try - spray glass cleaner, or a cloth rinsed in hot water and washing up liquid, work into the surfaces, all areas and edges.
then polish dry with a microfiber cloth that's very clean and dry, or new kitchen roll paper.

And then to confirm if you have a contamination issue, run tap water over the surfaces, and look for a complete mirror sheen of water, no breaks in water grip on the surfaces, anywhere, for at least 5 seconds, re-clean any areas where the water avoids, and re-test.
for fun just press a finger on your mast surface, then run water over the area, the water just avoids your finger print, and that's a problem right there, imagine a full hand print and the havoc it plays as you build a little speed through the water.

the other problem that can cause the wobbles is a mast leading edge that's not that smooth and this goes for all leading edges on your wings, I did forget to maintain my carbon mast leading edge, and on very close inspection it had all sorts of imperfections, air holes and rough feeling areas, not the best.

to cure this was a bigger job than I expected, and involved a trawl through the words of wisdom given by the guys who make mike labs race foils,
west system epoxy was brushed on the pre-prepped full leading edge, masking tape was applied along the full length around 3cm down from the front edge, when dry
the full front edge area was fine finished with 800wet/dry paper, then 1200, then 2000 paper, this wet dry paper process took some time as the lip of new epoxy had to be perfectly feathered into the masts main body, which was a labour of love job, a 101 mast is long and has two sides,
but a few hours later the mast was ready for the magic finishing that until reading the mike lab "how to maintain your mast" advice, I knew nothing about,
off ebay I bought finishing pads of 3000 grit and 4000 grit, these are 3M quality or similar, round 6 inch, thin foam backed dry use fine finishing discs, they are the secret tool to maintaining a super smooth edge and finish to your mast edge and wing edges, the finish you get is so fine and polished, so much better than any one way finish you can get with wet/dry paper. these pads are only around £3 each and last ages
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mirka-Abralo ... 4902.l9144

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Re: Turbulence while riding

Postby plummet » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:14 pm

I ride in the open ocean all the time with chop and swell from different directs plus subsurface currents changing.

When you blaze through subsurface currents or through swell chop on different angles you can get instant increase/decrease in lift that you have to counteract. When the current/swell lift hits from the side can send you into yaw. The more washing machine the swell/chop/current combo the worse it is. 4m short period swell with 90° wind shop is really hard to ride.

PS to eliminate venting wings as an option ride the foil deep.

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Re: Turbulence while riding

Postby alowishus » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:28 am

Open ocean foiling in chop can be challenging and was unnerving when I was learning at the beach with swell + chop.

I thought at first it was my gear, but it was me, the currents and the odd bit of weed. Takes getting used to.

All kinds of unpredictable currents. Some bays can have cross wave reflections in certain conditions that you don't notice unless you're on a foil.

In comparison flatwater foiling is a piece of piss.

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Re: Turbulence while riding

Postby Foil » Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:51 am

try this as a test of ultimate foil stability.
first witnessed it at flag beach with its long wave lines, the clean 3-5ft waves with smooth faces and clean tops and minimal top curl, I get these waves at rhosneigr in the uk as well, other waves are available.
on toeside go into the wave face at speed from say 20 deg angle, maybe around 20knts, so fast, just as you climb to the top peak bear off sharply to run along the top peak of the wave at full speed with kite pulling deep and hard, working the kite to harden line tension and keep increasing speed, speed gets yeeeharr speedy, and your foil needs to be super stable to stay in control, as you get near to the waves far shoulder drop down the wave face onto heel side and stay with the wave leaning right over the front of the board and watching the wings work under the surface, looking for clean water release from the wings edges, not streaming bubbles,
this little test really lets you know if all is well with your set up, not to mention is one of the best feelings available of a foil board, but a bit of a knightmare if you have the wobbles at speed.


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