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wingfoiling...?

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NYKiter
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Re: wingfoiling...?

Postby NYKiter » Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:24 pm

Isnt kiting much faster than winging?

Is anyone winging with a race foil?

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Re: wingfoiling...?

Postby slowboat » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:36 pm

NYKiter wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:24 pm
Isnt kiting much faster than winging?

Is anyone winging with a race foil?
If speed is your thing, stick with kiting. People are winging with race foils and going pretty fast but kiting will always be faster. For most people, winging is not about speed.

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Re: wingfoiling...?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:03 pm

And in kiting, it is, for most people, not about speed either...

This is why the hydrofoil wings has changed size to double or triple area over the last few years, for most buyers and riders.

Racefoils a totally different type, almost (I think it is) more different than kitefoil versus wingfoil.

For non racers, it is, both in kitefoil and wingfoil, a matter of the balance between low end start versus speed (and agility), as too slow is not fun either, for many reasons :rollgrin:

Having said that, you can go REALLY fast with a wingfoil, using smaller wings - and some like to do this too now :rollgrin:

8) Peter

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Re: wingfoiling...?

Postby OzBungy » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:24 am

I think kite and windfoiling are very much power oriented. The more power you have the better it works. Not enough power then it doesn't work it all.

Windfoiling is possibly much more linked to sail power because the rig is locked into place. There's not a lot you can do if you're underpowered.

Winging seems to be much more technique oriented. It's much more important to ride relaxed and to apply power and trimming the foil to make things happen. Chasing power results in getting tired and being dragged off downwind.

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Re: wingfoiling...?

Postby bragnouff » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:16 am

OzBungy wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:24 am
I think kite and windfoiling are very much power oriented. The more power you have the better it works. Not enough power then it doesn't work it all.

Windfoiling is possibly much more linked to sail power because the rig is locked into place. There's not a lot you can do if you're underpowered.

Winging seems to be much more technique oriented. It's much more important to ride relaxed and to apply power and trimming the foil to make things happen. Chasing power results in getting tired and being dragged off downwind.
To be honest, there's not a lot you can do with a wingfoil is you're underpowered either. There's no fun in shlogging. And windfoilers can pump their sail as well, probably with similar efficiency as a wing. It's only kiters who then have the advantage of working the kite in a large wind window who can really extend things below a certain point. But there are still limits to that, and if so underpowered that the kite cannot stay in the air, then it has obviously much worse consequences. On the other hand, being overpowered sucks, as it limits what you can and can't do (you can't really park and forget an overpowered kite, and surfing sucks if you have way too much pull).
I think your depiction of riding relaxed and efficiently trimmed very much applies to kitefoiling as well, and is a nice way for kiting too, there's bliss in subtlety. Of course for racing, as much power as you can reasonably control is what will get you to top places.

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Re: wingfoiling...?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:26 am

I also disagree with Oz, as wingfoil is power oriented too, no difference.

In fact, the more power, the easier it is, and upwind super easy now.

Some might prefer to be low powered, but I think it is a smaller fraction.

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Re: wingfoiling...?

Postby OzBungy » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:57 am

I'm not suggesting that less power is better than more power. It's more about what you do with the power you have.

Actually I'll modify my comment to say that lateral power when on the surface is bad. The board has insufficient lateral resistance to avoid going downwind. You need to modulate the power so that it is proportional to the resistance of the board. It's less of an issue up on the foil.

We have a crew of wingers who are old windsurfers and they haven't progressed much in the past year. I think they're trying to windsurf with a wing and a foil and that's wrong unless you have a heap of wind.

The traditional windsurfing thing of sheeting in hard and feeling a load of power in your arms and shoulders feels like the right thing to do, but it doesn't translate into anything useful. Even windsurf pumping is a 2D movement with a lot of hauling in on the back hand.

If you're on the surface you get dragged downwind. Using more and more power to accelerate you onto the foil will work eventually. Bracing yourself against the kite and pumping the foil is much more effective.

Allowing the wing to align itself with the airflow and having a gentler feel through your arms and shoulders is more effective and much easier on your body.

R Naish explains it quite well here

Last edited by OzBungy on Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: wingfoiling...?

Postby ronnie » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:56 am

OzBungy wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:24 am
I think kite and windfoiling are very much power oriented. The more power you have the better it works. Not enough power then it doesn't work it all.

Windfoiling is possibly much more linked to sail power because the rig is locked into place. There's not a lot you can do if you're underpowered.

Winging seems to be much more technique oriented. It's much more important to ride relaxed and to apply power and trimming the foil to make things happen. Chasing power results in getting tired and being dragged off downwind.
BIB
Yes, the windfoil race gear is big and you can't make as big a difference to fly earlier as with a wingfoil. The windfoil racing seems to be growing fast.


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