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Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

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beebad
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Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby beebad » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:16 am

I grew up surfing.

The balance thing on a foil board is complicated with the strap....i guess...

Will removing the strap altogether make learning even more dificult?

Bad idea?

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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby shalyd » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:15 am

Hi, I have learned surf kite and foil both strapless directly, I dont regret my choice at all.

The early starts might be more difficult due to board placement and waterstart,

but in my opinion it is also a lot safer because you are not stuck in your board when you fall.

It is totally doable as i am not particularly good, am just dedicated.

I now really enjoy the freedom of being strapless.

Last time i tried a twintip which i didnt take for a while, after 10 minutes i just changed it for my strapless surf as i cannot now feel "traped" anymore into straps.

Enjoy strapless !
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beebad (Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:31 pm)
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joe f
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby joe f » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:18 am

Foot hooks are another option to consider.

I started with straps (just front ones) but didn't like it. I then used foot hooks, which definitely help with the start itself and don't get in the way too much when riding. Ultimately, I prefer strapless and I think you will be the same with your surfing background but the foot hooks are a good compromise for learning.
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beebad (Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:31 pm)
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:31 am

Agree, it is fully doable.

But will give you a lot more trouble initially most likely, as you can NOT start like on a strapless surfboard (using a kite), but you have to put the board on its side, and get up quickly before it sinks again, or have a hand free holding the board, while you steer the kite in position - this is almost impossible at the very beginning, where you have to balance kite control AND the foilboard at the same time.

Where as with a strap or straps or foot hooks, the board can be held on its side, while you get the kite balanced and ready for getting up on the board.

You grew up surfing, but you did not write about whether you kitesurfed???

I assume you do.

8) Peter
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beebad (Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:31 pm)
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby Onda » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:33 am

You don´t need straps.
I started with strapless foil directly, coming from some years of strapless kite-surfing (never have been a prone surfer, however).
The feeling is rather similar overall. The most important thing to remember in the beginning is: You cannot "force" the foil into a wanted direction like you do it on a surfboard. The directional change / steering is much more subtle in comparison. If you want to "force" the foil, you will fall. Think of steering the foil by softly turning your shoulders / hip, and let the foil guide you. Difficult to explain, but you will quickly understand.

Peter´s hint with the sinking foil is very valid! If you chose the "right" foil, it won´t sink, which will make the water start much easier. One of the floating foils is the Moses 633, aka "Onda".

If you have never kitesurfed before, it will be very hard to learn foiling as your first kite diszipline. Before you start foiling, you should be able to steer and control the kite without thinking and/or looking at the kite.
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beebad (Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:31 pm)
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby airsail » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:59 am

As others have said, a foil that floats on its side, no problem, might take slightly longer than with straps but you will get it. If you try and learn on a heavy sinking alloy foil your going to be in fo a lot of hard work to learn.
My foil floats on its side, I don’t touch it with my hand. I just push it into position with my foot like you would a surfboard, dive the kite, your feet plant and off you go, very easy.
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beebad (Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:31 pm)
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beebad
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby beebad » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:56 am

I have been kiting since 2016, stay up wind, jump a little, Working on different transitions, bought a 4’6” dwarf craft and flight school setup last year but got it wet for the first time this year....figured out a few things I didn't like so far, but when it was good enough to kite, i would opt for mowing the lawn on my twintips and having fun instead of a Painful foiling learning curve Session.

So, Sounds like I am at a similar Junction when I started ice climbing and started with mono-point crampons and leash-less tools, which I never looked back for dual points or leashed tools (ice picks) which is now a main stream setup.

In 2018 I had a freak accident in SPI where i knocked off a bone spur in my ankle while kiteboarding and required surgery—the after effects persist and I don't have a good outlook for another ankle injury—-thus the strapless idea....

I just want to get use to taxi around, letting go of the twin tip muscle memory and join the foil club....I bought a space skate at the same time, so I have the standard slingshot front wing and the space skate....

Thanks everyone....btw, the Chesapeake bay area Is not known for consistent wind so a kitefoil is certainly a desirable option To learn and have as an option.

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DukeSilver
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby DukeSilver » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:13 pm

Yes, just do it. I've never used straps foiling from day 1. I started on the same set up as you - Hoverglide NF2 and Dwarf Craft 54". It was the heaviest, fastest sinking foil you could buy at the time. Within half and hour I managed a brief ride (2 or 3m) and was addicted. My avatar pic is actually that first run on the foil. Half a second later and I crashed :D. I worked out I could place my heels close to the windward rail on the board (just like a strapless SB start), and then sine the kite side to side (infinity sine) directly down wind of me and this down wind pull would sink the rail and lift the foil to a position I could then take off from. This was on the 60cm mast initially but also works on the 90. After a few months I just used one hand to position the board and dive the kite with the other hand as it's quicker. 3 years later, I can start faster strapless than my strapped peers can.
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beebad (Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:30 pm)
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jumptheshark
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:46 pm

I'm 100% strapless foiler, but I didn't start that way. Was a long time strapless kiter before foiling came along and saw a couple of anecdotes like the above that professed learning to foil strapless. I am not a particularly slow learner, so I thought I would be able to make a go of it. Now, I was say off the mark on a few key aspects. Had a super rockered, low volume board, full length aluminum mast and a 550 ish cm2 wing. Couldn't even get myself standing on the board first time out and very quickly realized this board behaves very differently to anything I had any experience on. Took some advice from Peter and others and mounted the foil to a floaty surfboard. Kept just the front strap for aid in waterstart positioning. Made a massive difference, and on that set up, I was taxying around and upwind on the first session. Progressed to up on the foil pretty quickly and ditched the front strap within the first say 15 sessions. Every board since then has been strapless.

That front strap was absolutely a big time saver for me. As I moved to more and more ideal board and foil set ups, it might have been less key to early success, but with an alloy foil that will sink while water starting and a surfboard with decent volume, full length mast, and relatively small wing that required decent take off speed, it was a HUGE aid that I was thankful for.

Getting the timing of the sink rate of the foil with the mechanics of the waterstart was they piece it helped me with, and once I had the timing, I could ditch the front strap and simply use my back hand to steady and position the board through the initial moments of waterstart. Eventually, with the right low volume board, it all became second nature and I often don't even touch the board with anything more than my feet, but I still rate the utility of the front strap for the start of the learning curve. If your board has inserts, it just makes sense to swallow a little pride and use the front one until you get the idea.

No one says you have to use it after that.
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beebad (Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:26 pm)
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jaros
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby jaros » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:49 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:46 pm
I'm 100% strapless foiler, but I didn't start that way. Was a long time strapless kiter before foiling came along and saw a couple of anecdotes like the above that professed learning to foil strapless. I am not a particularly slow learner, so I thought I would be able to make a go of it. Now, I was say off the mark on a few key aspects. Had a super rockered, low volume board, full length aluminum mast and a 550 ish cm2 wing. Couldn't even get myself standing on the board first time out and very quickly realized this board behaves very differently to anything I had any experience on. Took some advice from Peter and others and mounted the foil to a floaty surfboard. Kept just the front strap for aid in waterstart positioning. Made a massive difference, and on that set up, I was taxying around and upwind on the first session. Progressed to up on the foil pretty quickly and ditched the front strap within the first say 15 sessions. Every board since then has been strapless.

That front strap was absolutely a big time saver for me. As I moved to more and more ideal board and foil set ups, it might have been less key to early success, but with an alloy foil that will sink while water starting and a surfboard with decent volume, full length mast, and relatively small wing that required decent take off speed, it was a HUGE aid that I was thankful for.

Getting the timing of the sink rate of the foil with the mechanics of the waterstart was they piece it helped me with, and once I had the timing, I could ditch the front strap and simply use my back hand to steady and position the board through the initial moments of waterstart. Eventually, with the right low volume board, it all became second nature and I often don't even touch the board with anything more than my feet, but I still rate the utility of the front strap for the start of the learning curve. If your board has inserts, it just makes sense to swallow a little pride and use the front one until you get the idea.

No one says you have to use it after that.
That is the answer! :thumb:


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