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Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

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purdyd
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby purdyd » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:29 pm

I think a front hook is a good compromise. I set my hook and foil position so my Front foot is under the rear edge of the hook.

As long as I can pivot my front foot toes toward the rail without hitting the hook, it is for me like riding strapless.

But with the advantage of being able to position the board more easily and quickly.

I tend toward smaller kites, my foils sink, and I am in open ocean with surf.

There are some advantages to having a front hook or strap when dragging out through surf.

I’d say an overwhelming majority of the foilers in my area use a front strap or hook.
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beebad (Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:47 pm)
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papasmerf
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby papasmerf » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:50 pm

i just went thru a learning curve and i started strapless and it sucked,,,i didn't know it sucked until i put a hook on the front area,,,just that one hook made things so much easier to start learning,just for the water starts is all,, once you are up,,, you don't need a strap or hook,,cause i could use it to tilt the board back up and hold it there while i positioned body and kite for the swoop( i had a sinking foil) ,, move my foot a bit out and swoop kite and be off,,,,now i can do it strapless but for that initial few days,,,i think just one hook would make your life so much easier,,,,,your milage may vary
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby jakemoore » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:37 am

Its totally doable. I did a font foot hook for one or two sessions early on mostly to hold the board in position for water start. Then the hook ripped the inserts out of my board. After I repaired it, I never went back.

A thin board like a Crazy Fly chill deck is a lot easier to learn strapless water start as is a foil that floats or sinks slowly. The issue is keeping the foil on its side while you get situated before diving the kite.

Once you are riding on the surface the strap doesn't add much and for first flights I think its much better to be able to escape the board in the big crashes that are soon to come.
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beebad (Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:49 pm)
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:11 am

jakemoore wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:37 am
Its totally doable. I did a font foot hook for one or two sessions early on mostly to hold the board in position for water start. Then the hook ripped the inserts out of my board. After I repaired it, I never went back.

A thin board like a Crazy Fly chill deck is a lot easier to learn strapless water start as is a foil that floats or sinks slowly. The issue is keeping the foil on its side while you get situated before diving the kite.

Once you are riding on the surface the strap doesn't add much and for first flights I think its much better to be able to escape the board in the big crashes that are soon to come.
I'd convinced myself that I needed front straps or I could never water start without them. Then one day I ripped the front strap mid-session and ... never looked back.

Someone asked me recently about water starting in light wind, as I think I'm the only foiler here who rides strapless.

The only time I've noticed an issue is in actual waves, when the board can be pushed away from your feet faster than the kite can pull you downwind...

Kind of pays to do it all in a flowing motion, and you have to give up on laying back in the water lazily positioning the kite, but if my dumb ass can do it, any one can.
So, starting to ride to the left: board on the RHS pointing downwind, kite at 1 or 2.
Get the board on its edge, hold the bottom rear corner to keep it in place.
When you're ready to start, send the kite across for a power dive, get your back foot up onto the board and let your hand go, then sink the tail with that back foot and get the front foot on, complete the dive and ride off.

It's kind of how I start strapless surfboard, except I don't get the board on its edge, I just sink the rear foot...
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beebad (Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:51 pm)
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby Slappysan » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:33 pm

I learned to foil strapless, but one thing I did was attach a custom grab strap in the spot between the two foot positions and it made life so much easier. It's all about holding the board in place while you get started.

These days I use a single rear foot hook and I think it's by far the way to go. Basically all I use it for is holding the board in place when preparing to start and after that my foot is moved up away from the hook so I'm essentially riding strapless.

If you opt for a single front hook it's always going to be there in the way of your feet while you are foiling, unless you can position it far enough forward that it can be out of the way but I doubt you'll find boards with that kind of strap mount options. With the rear it's easy to put it on the max back rear mount and it'll be 100% out of the way once you are riding.

At 3:32 you can see how I get going with a single rear hook.
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beebad (Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:25 am)
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby bkkite » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:45 pm

I learned to ride strapless, and I really disliked the strap. I also used a board that didn't have much volume (so the board sinks a bit and makes strapless starts a bit more challenging), and I'd say it took me about 5 sessions to get up and riding both directions comfortably with some control :)

One thing that really confused me is that if you have straps, they need to be in to be in the right spot on the board for the foil ( I think they say the board and foil need to be tuned together?). But since I'm riding a Frankenstein, the straps were definitely in the wrong spot, so I had a real difficult time keeping the foil down. I pulled the straps off, and all of a sudden things started working! I used a half strap one session, and that was better than the straps, but I still preferred strapless.

Hope that helps someone else avoid the pain. TLDR, if you ride straps, do it with a board and foil that were designed to go together or with rails so you can adjust them.
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beebad (Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:26 am)
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby bkkite » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:46 pm

Slappysan wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:33 pm
I learned to foil strapless, but one thing I did was attach a custom grab strap in the spot between the two foot positions and it made life so much easier. It's all about holding the board in place while you get started.

These days I use a single rear foot hook and I think it's by far the way to go. Basically all I use it for is holding the board in place when preparing to start and after that my foot is moved up away from the hook so I'm essentially riding strapless.

If you opt for a single front hook it's always going to be there in the way of your feet while you are foiling, unless you can position it far enough forward that it can be out of the way but I doubt you'll find boards with that kind of strap mount options. With the rear it's easy to put it on the max back rear mount and it'll be 100% out of the way once you are riding.

At 3:32 you can see how I get going with a single rear hook.
that hand strap seems like it would have been super useful... wish I'd thought of that when I was starting

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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:25 am

bkkite wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:45 pm
I learned to ride strapless, and I really disliked the strap. I also used a board that didn't have much volume (so the board sinks a bit and makes strapless starts a bit more challenging), and I'd say it took me about 5 sessions to get up and riding both directions comfortably with some control :)

One thing that really confused me is that if you have straps, they need to be in to be in the right spot on the board for the foil ( I think they say the board and foil need to be tuned together?). But since I'm riding a Frankenstein, the straps were definitely in the wrong spot, so I had a real difficult time keeping the foil down. I pulled the straps off, and all of a sudden things started working! I used a half strap one session, and that was better than the straps, but I still preferred strapless.

Hope that helps someone else avoid the pain. TLDR, if you ride straps, do it with a board and foil that were designed to go together or with rails so you can adjust them.

True, but can easily be solved, simply be letting someone experienced ride your Frankenstein foil before you go yourself learning, then you will know exactly where the strap should be.
It is merely the front strap that needs to be correct, the rear doesnt matter much, as rearfoot further forward when learning.

I have done this many times when some who are either new, or some who are on the learning curve getting a new semi home made foil, they ask me to ride it, and I can immediately tell them where the straps should be moved (or not) for correct trim.

Many prefer straps, either for jumping or making freestyle transitions (frontroll/backroll transition f.ex).
And those wanting to go fast, also use straps of course.

I ride strapless almost solely myself, because I am lazy, as sometimes when out with my freestyle friend it would be fun to jump and spin around like him, and like we did on our TTs years ago, a good occasional change from strapless.
And I got the straps ready, and know the trim is spot on, both boards I would use, but I rarely bother to mount these, eventhough just 6 screws :roll:
Think I will say to myself I should ride with straps more, from now on, instead of the lazyness keeping me away from even more fun with both styles :-?

8) Peter
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beebad (Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:27 am)
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ladomi
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby ladomi » Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:13 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:31 am
But will give you a lot more trouble initially most likely, as you can NOT start like on a strapless surfboard (using a kite),
I'm perplexed as this is not the first time I have seen someone saying this, but I start foiling the same way I start with a strapless surfboard. I believe someone said in this thread that they do the same. I use the Slingshot Hover Glide system with the Space Skate which does not float. I never tilt my board up and quickly time a dive before it sinks. I can take as much time as I want lazily on my back with my feet resting on the board.

Peter, have you actually spent some time trying this technique? It took me about 30 minutes to figure it out. You have put your feet very close to the edge and dive the kite more vertically. If you dive the kite in the normal fashion you get pulled sideways and off the front.

Should I make a video?
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beebad (Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:30 am)
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PurdyKiter
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Re: Learning to foil strapless from a surfing background

Postby PurdyKiter » Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:50 pm

I went directly to one foot hook on the front foot only. I stayed with this for a few months and then progressed to strapless. The ONLY purpose for this single hook is for you to keep the board in position for you waterstarts. As soon as you're upright and riding you'll slide your front foot out of the hook. This makes for safer crash ejects. I purposely placed the hook further forward so it's out of the way during riding.
I've seen all kinds of DIY ideas on this. Like a person who simply has a cheap length of 1/2 webbing across two inserts and tucks a toe under this for waterstarts only.
Riding foil strapless (other than the waterstart) is easier than strapped in my opinion.

EDIT: This is for help with the waterstart that is the method where you bring to board over onto it's side, with the foil/mast/all downwind. Heavier non-carbon setups sink fast and this was my need for a single hook FF... at first with learning
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