Moses 633 compared to F-one Phantom 1080

[joekitetime]

My Moses 633 had been my favorite foil of all time until I started riding the FONE Phantom 1080 (no, they didn't pay me to say that but they did give me a free t-shirt and hat)...

I kite foiled the Moses 633 for 2 solid seasons and compared every other Moses foil against it. The 633 was always my baby, always my go to foil in sketchy or sub-optimum conditions. I worked thru the gammet of stabilizers for it - starting at the 483 and moving down the 450, 425, 421, 420, 330, 325 and finally ending at the completely loving the 380 which is how I rode this setup on the stringy Moses superfuse. I considered it to be for me the best setup of all time.

I was hestitant to even try the Phantom 1080, but now that I've been riding it I must say that it excels over the Moses 633. Here is a list of the reasons why:

THE UPSIDES

+when carving hard rail to rail, there is less of a tendency for cavitation. Already the Moses 633 has an extremely low tendency to cavitate, but the Phantom 1080 even less so.
+The Phanton 1080 has a better low end. The Moses 633 has an awesome low end, but the Phantom 1080 is just a tad less so. And, not only does it have a little bit better low end, it rides more stable at slower speeds as well because its wingspan is wider...
+The Phanton 1080 is quieter, softer to ride. It is a very soft foil. It would be better for a beginner in my opinion.
+The Phanton 1080 carves better. It is not quite as loose as the 633, it is wider so it takes more rider input to carve, but it somehow really locks into the carve and does not let go when you really load it up.

THE DOWNSIDES

-The Moses 633 pair with a race stab is faster. I do give up some top end...
-With the Moses system you have more options for different combonations. With FONE (and I may be ignorant of my options) I find less options to tweak the ride***
***this may be a blessing in disguise because I end up buying every option...
-With FONE it doesn't pack up as neat and tidy as the Moses system because of the Foil/Fuse being one piece (more or less)...

I never thought I'd say but I do prefer the Phanton 1080 to the Moses 633 for kite foiling.

Regarding wing foiling, I tried the 633 and it was pretty much awful. I don't think the 1080 will work for winging but I've yet to try it.

***see comparison of Phanton 1480 compared to Moses 1000 under the "winging" forum for cost analysis which applies to the Moses 633 vs the Phanton 1080 $$$...

[omg]

Once again, quality review! Thanks! Why 633 was awful for winging?

[tomtom]

cause it doesnt pump at all

[omg]

cause it doesnt pump at all

Yeh, that's true!

[leeuwen]

I don’t see the 1080 on the f-one site.
The smallest version I see on their site is the 1280.
Is it a new foil that’s not out yet?

[joekitetime]

Perhaps, not sure. I bought mine at Mackite. Tucker said it just came out.

Regarding why I don't like the 633 for winging is that it takes a ton of power for it to go upwind, and it seems maxed out on lift, so it doesn't feel light and carvy, it feels overloaded and draggy. The 790 on the other hand is for winging what the 633 is for kiting in my experience.

[Cefirmeza]

Has any lightweight rider ever pumped on lake or surfed the 633?
Would it be possible at 65kg?

[windmaker]

One significant difference between these 2 wings is durability. I hit multiple times sand banks and rocks with my F-One foil with no issues or even a scratch. Not so much with the Moses, my friend split his first time out on what he described as a minor shock.

[dave1986]

I worked thru the gammet of stabilizers for it - starting at the 483 and moving down the 450, 425, 421, 420, 330, 325 and finally ending at the completely loving the 380 which is how I rode this setup on the stringy Moses superfuse.

I didn't know Moses made a S380 stabilizer? I tried Googleing it, but found nothing. Is this an old stabilizer?

[joekitetime]

I worked thru the gammet of stabilizers for it - starting at the 483 and moving down the 450, 425, 421, 420, 330, 325 and finally ending at the completely loving the 380 which is how I rode this setup on the stringy Moses superfuse.

I didn't know Moses made a S380 stabilizer? I tried Googleing it, but found nothing. Is this an old stabilizer?

Yes, it is older. I "heard" that they still have some. It was the stab that they paired with the race 600 foil a few years back.

However, I'd add that once you go with the small stabs that there isn't a huge difference. I happen to have had the 380, the smallest stab, which also ended up being my favorite for slow speed carving and slashing.