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Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

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schroffy
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Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby schroffy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:36 pm

Hi All,

With an intermediate hydrofoil level, I am looking for a kite for really low wind to kite on a lake (gusty wind is the rule in general)

With wind above approximatevely 18-20knots, I normally go out in twin tip. I weight 80kg. (180lbs)

Owning the naish pivot in 7/9, North Evo 11m (which I tend to change for a 12m pivot), I am looking for recommendations for a specific low wind kite in which I could kite in wind bellow 10 knots.

I was considering the Naish Boxer 16m, however I never kited in such a big kite. What is working for you in such condition?
I might consider foil kites as well.

Thanks in advance for your help.

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby Windigo1 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:44 pm

I am the same weight as you I use a 12m Airush Ultra or a 9M Naish Boxer for that kind of wind. The first year I foiled I used a 15M Ultra but but when I got better and started going faster the 15M was unnecessary I was getting overpowered quickly when going fast. 16M is too big if you have a big wing like the 633. If you have a very fast foil with a small wing it might work better. Basically if you can keep the 12m in the air you can foil, this is were the single strut or foil kite have an advantage since they stay in the air and relaunch in less wind and drift better when going downwind in very ligth wind.

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby schroffy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:14 pm

Many thanks for your reply.

I am probably too used to multiple strat kites and therefore did not take into consideration that the kite will less likely be stalling in the same wind. (in addition, being easier to relaunch)

Is there any reason you took the Airush Ultra in 12m and not in 9m?
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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:46 pm

Uuuuh, forget about the boxer 16 m2, almost totally utterly useless for foiling :o

Way too slow...
Way too overpowered once you are up...
Impossible to relaunch...

As said, stop with a 12 m2 light tubekite (being about average weight that is), or go with lighter foil kites.

I ride a 12 m2 strutless (with longer lines of course) from 7 knots.

Have tried the bigger strutless ones too, but no good IMO, compared to a tad smaller strutless, or a foil kite.

With an UL foilkite you can go bigger in size, but the cost is a very boring kite - but you can ride in even less wind then.

When 11 knots you should be able to hydrofoil with an 8 m2, so here even a 12 m2 tubekite is way too much.

8) Peter

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:58 pm

Lots of way to skin the egg on this one but I'd recommend a 15m foil kite; Ozone, Flysurfer, or F-One. They all make an ultra-race kite, a fast-freeride kite, and an entry-level foil kite:

Ozone:
R1
Chrono
Hyperlink

Flysurfer:
VMG
Sonic
Soul

F-One:
Diablo
Halo

As you go down those lists overall cost of the kite will likely go down, durability of the materials will likely go up, and the relaunch will also likely become easier. The overall available wind range will also likely go down because more durable freeride kites are usually heavier, but all things considered they're roughly the same.

I'm at the stage where I want to be on that top tier of kite so I'm selling my Sonic2 in order to trade up (laterally?) to an R1V2/3 or a VMG/2. Really for me now it's about upwind angle, if that wasn't a consideration that I noticed riding the Sonic2, I'd keep that kite for freeriding and boosting.

From all the kites on that list, if you're not going to race, I'd really endorse the Sonics, especially now with the new Sonic3 on the market. I think it's the best intermediate foil kite and you'll be out on all the lightwind days with that kite. It's only disadvantages will be felt on a race hydrofoil.

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby edt » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:43 pm

There's no replacment for a foil kite in the low end. I strongly recommend the Soul because it's so fun. The Mossy list is great too but a lot of those are race kites which are a bit more finicky and "all around" foil kites. I never compared the sonic head to head against the soul though so I can't say anything about the sonic. If you must use a tube kite, then look at the 1 struts or no strut kites. I have been incredibly impressed with the soul in gusty conditions.

The thing about foiling is that there is no actual "low end". As long as the kite can stay in the air it's possible to foil. The trick is finding a kite that is very light so it won't fall down. Big tube kites fall down in light wind.
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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby Windigo1 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:51 pm

schroffy wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:14 pm
Many thanks for your reply.

I am probably too used to multiple strat kites and therefore did not take into consideration that the kite will less likely be stalling in the same wind. (in addition, being easier to relaunch)

Is there any reason you took the Airush Ultra in 12m and not in 9m?
Initially the Airush was getting great reviews it was the first single strut to really work well so I got a 15m and then a 12m. Later I got the 9m Boxer used but almost new. Now I prefer the way the Boxer flies it feels more like a regular kite. The Ultra is lighter so it make sense for a 12M. The Boxer gen 1 has battens so it's a bit heavier but it flaps a lot less. Now I have 9m-7m-5m Boxer. My friend has a 12M Boxer 2020 he does really well with it doesn't have the battens but still flaps less than the Ultra. Now I would probably get a 12m Boxer but I like the Ultra it works well I plan to keep it. This year I am mostly on the 9M works good from about 8 knots to 20 but really sweet 8 knots to 15. 15 to 25 I can use the 7m and above 20 the 5M

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby kitenight11 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:33 pm

From 8 - 10 knots I am pretty fine with any onestrutter in 10m (Slingshot Ghost, Ozone Alpha, Eleveight OS, etc) at 80kg. Pretty stable and easy to get up on the foil by downlooping.
Then, when there are lots of gusts and lulls of 3 - 5 knots, it is a different story...

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby OzBungy » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:59 am

I wouldn't recommend a foil kite to anybody. That's a choice you should make for yourself after having done your own research and thinking it through for yourself.

For most of us, as has been said, a lightweight LEI about 12m should be ample. The advantage of the LEI is simple. It turns faster, and it floats when you drop it. You will drop it. Be prepared to self rescue. It's kind of fun.

The other things to consider for stupid light wind riding are, I have a 60cm bar with a home made long travel trimming system. With 45cm of chicken loop travel and 50cm of trimmer travel I always rig for maximum power and just pull more and more trimmer as the wind increases (which it usually does on lightwind days). The only downside is a lot of leech fluttering when the wind is very strong.

I also have a 155cm board from when I was a new foiler. That board is very forgiving of touchdowns and surface riding and slow starts and badly timed water starts.

I have experimented with large surf foils (1500cm). They tend to get over powered in the water start. A 1000cm foil gets going just as early and doesn't buck when you water start.
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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby Flyboy » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:03 pm

I guess the question is: how desperately do you want to get on the water? Low wind foiling - like other forms of low wind kiting - offering diminishing returns. This has been my first year foiling with a "bigger" (1000cm2) wing. This has dropped my wind performance level to around 10-12knots with a "regular" 8m/9m 3 strut wave kite. In that range I can ride fast, carve... & water relaunch if I happen to drop the kite. Below that, I have found that I can get going with my 11m wave kite, but gybing becomes more problematic & the risk of dropping the kite & not being able to relaunch, or simply the wind lulling too low increases. That's where a light foil kite or strutless helps.

The question is: do I need to get on the water in sub-10 knot conditions, or am I content to wait for 10 knot + days? This summer (at least) I have been able to foil in 10 knots + a minimum of 3 or 4 times a week & that seems acceptable to me. Foiling in 10 - 18 knots is way more fun than riding a SB or TT in those winds. I'm not sure, based on my experience this year, that I feel the need to chase the lower winds.


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