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Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

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tkaraszewski
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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby tkaraszewski » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:51 pm

I have not tried the larger Peaks, but didn't like my smaller Peak for hydrofoiling. I would much rather fly my 13m Sonic in the wind conditions we're talking about, and if I really wanted to push the bottom end, I'd order a Sonic on 18m, or a VMG in 21/23m, but I don't really want to deal with the tuning hassles of a pure race kite.

None of the people in this video are on Peaks, and the wind is what, 6-8 knots?

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby jaros » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:30 am

grigorib wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:52 pm
I was debating the Peak but few people who own/ride them persuaded me that regardless how neat and cool it is...
1. It’s not a lightwind kite (even though it flies in barely any wind)
2. Swim-ins suck bad and they happen

I tried foiling with 9m Peak last June (before above feedback) and decided that it’s not a solution for LW and would be not a wise choice to buy one.

Got 9m UFO instead
Peak4 does not exist in size 9m2. Did you try some older version? As far as i know, the Peak4 is the first generation that is good for hydrofoiling.

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby haare » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:39 am

Hi, I kite in same type of conditions. Gusty small lake.

Personally I prefer about 1000cm2 front wing. My weight is 80kg

I use about 70% of time 18m FS Sonic 3. About 20% of time 13m sonic 3 and 10% of time 9m Sonic 3. We seldom have strong winds so I get to use my 6m soul 2 or 3 times a year.

It depends what you want to do. Small lake equals no waves. So I would forget peak. It has poor peak power and upwind it is useless compared to proper kites. Its superior drifting is not that important in lake conditions. There are no waves unless its a proper storm. Then all kites drift well....

I would choose from Mossys list. Forget top tier kites they need prior foil kite experience. I would recommend soul. If you are more performance oriented then sonic / chrono or peter lynn aero v2.

You know which one I chose. I have used aero v1 & v2, diablo, fs race, sonic fr, sonic 2, ozone r1v2.

Sonic 3 is by far the best for me. But for a foil kite newbie Soul is the preferred choice. I like to use big kites. I like old school tricks and hang time is the best with those big foil kites.
Last edited by haare on Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:12 am

haare wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:39 am
Hi, I kite in same type of conditions. Gusty small lake.

Personally I prefer about 1000cm2 front wing. My weight is 80kg

I use about 70% of time FS Sonic 3. About 20% of time 13m sonic 3 and 10% of time 9m Sonic 3.

It depends what you want to do. Small lake equals no waves. So I would forget peak. It has poor peak power and upwind it is useless compared to proper kites. Its superior drifting is not that important in lake conditions. There are no waves unless its a proper storm. Then all kites drift well....

I would choose from Mossys list. Forget top tier kites they need prior foil kite experience. I would recommend soul. If you are more performance oriented then sonic / chrono or peter lynn aero v2.

You know which one I chose. I have used aero v1 & v2, diablo, fs race, sonic fr, sonic 2, ozone r1v2.

Sonic 3 is by far the best for me.

True.

But then again, a Peak will be way better when gusty, going in and out, no drama with kite collapsing and folding out in the powerzone when behind trees like higher aspect racier foil kites do, can be extremely risky.

And if you are on a windy lake, the Sonic3 is only down in 9 m2, which is a big size.

Here the Peaks are superior, and some of us like the drift also on almost flat water, for the fact that you can carve around to get the wave feel, a lot more freely with a drifting kite like this.
Upwind is no problem on a hydrofoil with these.

Again, depends on what you like - but when just above 15 knots, I launch a 4 m2 next to the car even if behind obstackles, as I can walk out to the water (and back) with these kites, without risk of dropping or collapsing.
This would be impossible with a tube kite or a std double skin foil kite.

So there is a couple of advantages for lake foiling indeed.

But I can see the advantage of using a max performance kite also, in lighter winds when on a lake, so depends on your very conditions and liking :naughty:

Also, some might find the Peaks boring in the long run, too easy so to speak :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby haare » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:39 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:12 am
haare wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:39 am
Hi, I kite in same type of conditions. Gusty small lake.

Personally I prefer about 1000cm2 front wing. My weight is 80kg

I use about 70% of time FS Sonic 3. About 20% of time 13m sonic 3 and 10% of time 9m Sonic 3.

It depends what you want to do. Small lake equals no waves. So I would forget peak. It has poor peak power and upwind it is useless compared to proper kites. Its superior drifting is not that important in lake conditions. There are no waves unless its a proper storm. Then all kites drift well....

I would choose from Mossys list. Forget top tier kites they need prior foil kite experience. I would recommend soul. If you are more performance oriented then sonic / chrono or peter lynn aero v2.

You know which one I chose. I have used aero v1 & v2, diablo, fs race, sonic fr, sonic 2, ozone r1v2.

Sonic 3 is by far the best for me.

True.

But then again, a Peak will be way better when gusty, going in and out, no drama with kite collapsing and folding out in the powerzone when behind trees like higher aspect racier foil kites do, can be extremely risky.

And if you are on a windy lake, the Sonic3 is only down in 9 m2, which is a big size.

Here the Peaks are superior, and some of us like the drift also on almost flat water, for the fact that you can carve around to get the wave feel, a lot more freely with a drifting kite like this.
Upwind is no problem on a hydrofoil with these.

Again, depends on what you like - but when just above 15 knots, I launch a 4 m2 next to the car even if behind obstackles, as I can walk out to the water (and back) with these kites, without risk of dropping or collapsing.
This would be impossible with a tube kite or a std double skin foil kite.

So there is a couple of advantages for lake foiling indeed.

But I can see the advantage of using a max performance kite also, in lighter winds when on a lake, so depends on your very conditions and liking :naughty:

Also, some might find the Peaks boring in the long run, too easy so to speak :wink:

8) Peter
Well with peak upwind angle is next to nothing. It is not a problem if you dont need to travel upwind. However if you actually want to go upwind it is a problem.

We often do trips in our lake. No one uses peak then. Especially in gusty narrow parts sonic is the way to go. Because you can actually get through those gusty parts of the trip.

Here is a gps log from this summer. Narrowest part is less than 200m wide. So you really want a kite that goes well upwind.

Also tacking is very much easier with proper foil kite.

Image

And also upwind angle is important for long trips. Here is a pic from our longest trip from the summer (220km total both ways). It was about 85 km upwind (120 km when tacking). It would have been impossible with peak.
Image

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby Janus » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:56 am

Pete's writing is spot on.
I launch the Peak's around the house, walk around the house with the kite up, land in between houses, dump it in the garden while foiling in, sometimes a bit sketchy and one time i had to dump it in the water while standing in the garden.
I can do this al alone, no help needed.. when the kite is down, it's down, a little bush is handy but not needed. (make sure the robotic landmower is off..)
There is no other kite you can do this with I think.

I admit it is also fun to foil with my Souls, love to jump with it or race upwind.. even on my small little gusty lake.. but than I have to think about landing help in the garden or walk a few 100m's back after landing on a little field (alone of course)

A trip like "haare's" i would take my Soul, no doubt about that. Upwind is (way) better than with a TT but compared with my Soul or a race foil it sucks.. And yes, tacking with the Peak's is more difficult.. I can do it with the Soul's but with the Peak's I just screw them up every time, my fault, I'm still in the learning phase.

There is no one kite can do it all, like there is no one foil who can do it all..

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby joriws » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:18 am

haare wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:39 am
We often do trips in our lake. No one uses peak then. Especially in gusty narrow parts sonic is the way to go. Because you can actually get through those gusty parts of the trip.
Haare, I have not had any problem with Peak4 in bad wind. I even flew behind (downwind) large trees on Mansesurf demo-days this spring testing a potential new waist harness. Peak4 flew nice, I also did 4-line stuntkite type of tricks and wind at kite level must have been horrible. LEI demoers did not even try.. :naughty:

About upwind angle, I could out-upwind-angle and at the same time match speed of wind surfing guys at Yyteri with Peak4 with low aspect largish kitefoil (Onda 633). For Peak wind was on upper register on this 'trial' against wind surfing.

But if there was a Sonic3 & racefoil I'd have been left badly behind on your insane 200km hydrofoil trips. So when playing near the beach, give Peak4 a chance. Or at your summer cottage "lake", just drift launch is more trickier than with Sonic3..

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby haare » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:37 am

Janus wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:56 am
Pete's writing is spot on.
I launch the Peak's around the house, walk around the house with the kite up, land in between houses, dump it in the garden while foiling in, sometimes a bit sketchy and one time i had to dump it in the water while standing in the garden.
I can do this al alone, no help needed.. when the kite is down, it's down, a little bush is handy but not needed. (make sure the robotic landmower is off..)
There is no other kite you can do this with I think.

I admit it is also fun to foil with my Souls, love to jump with it or race upwind.. even on my small little gusty lake.. but than I have to think about landing help in the garden or walk a few 100m's back after landing on a little field (alone of course)

A trip like "haare's" i would take my Soul, no doubt about that. Upwind is (way) better than with a TT but compared with my Soul or a race foil it sucks.. And yes, tacking with the Peak's is more difficult.. I can do it with the Soul's but with the Peak's I just screw them up every time, my fault, I'm still in the learning phase.

There is no one kite can do it all, like there is no one foil who can do it all..
Agree for Most points. But it is fairly easy to land foil kite alone also. I usually just stall it down and then walk downwind so that the kite hits a tree or bush and is secured. But of course peak is easier with its 5th line.

It again depends what you want to do. If strapless freestyle cruising is your thingthing, peak might be what you are looking for. But peak is not for absolute light wind. My 18m sonic 3 will have better low end atleast with my gear (105cm long board). And it does not jump well.

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby Janus » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:06 am

haare wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:37 am
Janus wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:56 am
Pete's writing is spot on.
I launch the Peak's around the house, walk around the house with the kite up, land in between houses, dump it in the garden while foiling in, sometimes a bit sketchy and one time i had to dump it in the water while standing in the garden.
I can do this al alone, no help needed.. when the kite is down, it's down, a little bush is handy but not needed. (make sure the robotic landmower is off..)
There is no other kite you can do this with I think.

I admit it is also fun to foil with my Souls, love to jump with it or race upwind.. even on my small little gusty lake.. but than I have to think about landing help in the garden or walk a few 100m's back after landing on a little field (alone of course)

A trip like "haare's" i would take my Soul, no doubt about that. Upwind is (way) better than with a TT but compared with my Soul or a race foil it sucks.. And yes, tacking with the Peak's is more difficult.. I can do it with the Soul's but with the Peak's I just screw them up every time, my fault, I'm still in the learning phase.

There is no one kite can do it all, like there is no one foil who can do it all..
Agree for Most points. But it is fairly easy to land foil kite alone also. I usually just stall it down and then walk downwind so that the kite hits a tree or bush and is secured. But of course peak is easier with its 5th line.

It again depends what you want to do. If strapless freestyle cruising is your thingthing, peak might be what you are looking for. But peak is not for absolute light wind. My 18m sonic 3 will have better low end atleast with my gear (105cm long board). And it does not jump well.
No you have to agree with me on all points.. :lol:

But seriously, I have lot of experience with foil kites, started with Speed1's..
In my backyard landing a twinskin is tricky.. really tricky, very big chance in damaging your kite without a assistet landing.. backstall landing most of the time not possible due to space issues..
I don't use the 5th line at all, extra lines means possible extra probs..

It is correct that the Peak is not a lightwind kite or a jumping machine, it is all writen before.

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Re: Hydrofoil low end (~7-11knots)

Postby grigorib » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:10 pm

jaros wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:30 am
grigorib wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:52 pm
I was debating the Peak but few people who own/ride them persuaded me that regardless how neat and cool it is...
1. It’s not a lightwind kite (even though it flies in barely any wind)
2. Swim-ins suck bad and they happen

I tried foiling with 9m Peak last June (before above feedback) and decided that it’s not a solution for LW and would be not a wise choice to buy one.

Got 9m UFO instead
Peak4 does not exist in size 9m2. Did you try some older version? As far as i know, the Peak4 is the first generation that is good for hydrofoiling.
It was Peak3, but I don’t think difference would be anything revolutionary - it’s a very nice kite already


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