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How to slow down the foil

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Peter_Frank
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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:29 pm

joekitetime wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:30 pm
Put the kite high and go straight downwind (usually folks think they are going downwind when they really aren't).

Put the kite high and point as high to windward if you can.

If your kite is lifting you and the foil out of the water you are flying to big of a kite. Unless your aim is to race, then put the kite all the way down to near touching the water and edge against it, which is the formula to go faster, not slower.

Hope that helps a tad.

Larger foils like to be ridden slower. Smaller foils like to be ridden faster.

Joe is spot on on everything here...

And the other comments too IMO, especially "Foil" got it right, everyone without any exceptions, will experience the "death runs" quite often, when learning.

Later, you almost dont understand why it was like that :lol:

Yes, a combination of too big a kite, but also lack of anticipation of "where you are".

I dont buy the "big wing" thing at all, as when you have learned, a big wing does not give you more issues in this respect, than faster ones, on the contrary....

Big wings does not accelerate out of control as much :wink:

So yes to the question, bigger foil CAN slow things down, so easier, known by all who ride semi og bigger waves :thumb:

8) Peter
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jumptheshark
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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:37 pm

kiteswede wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:25 pm
Hey

Where is the break? ;)

To be succinct, there is none!

One of the big differences in the step to foil. There is no turning the board sideways and grinding out speed like you can with other boards.

Feels like your on rails for a while, but eventually you get used to it and learn that there is definitely drag to your foil and all you have to do is drop line tension and you will eventually slow down.

If I remember correctly, once the speed run begins, it can be tough to even get the kite to climb. I remember realizing that a quick yank to suddenly redirect the kite skyward was way more effective than trying to slowly muscle it up. The slow muscling basically keeps you sheeted in and powering up! As soon as you feel the speed getting a little crazy, yank turn the kite skyward and then concentrate on sheeting out and pointing higher upwind.

I only really clued into reducing line tension and hence speed by carving toward the kite a little later when I had a little more comfort. Despite many years of killing line tension by carving toward the kite on other boards, it was not my first instinct when learning to foil. Carving upwind was much more natural, and it all worked as desired once I figured out how to get the kite to climb without powering it up.

The only other way of slowing down effectively that has not already been mentioned, is crashing! That one works every time.
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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:20 am

Agree, there IS no brake on hydrofoils - but it doesnt matter, when you have learned to anticipate things.

Corresponds to riding a hovercraft, there is no brake either (on most of them), you have to anticipate movements, and change power direction extremely early to avoid hitting things much later, and to change direction :rollgrin:

8) Peter

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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby Foil » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:12 pm

The really big heart stopper of a death run is when you first learn going round to toe side in the air high on the mast,
You have no idea what to expect and are rubbish at dumping power with board control, as when new to toe side you have near to no control, and crashing hard and fast when new to toe side is an eye openier, really scary as you feel all locked into a strange body position and going too fast,
I remember quite clearly the feeling, and when I asked my foiling budy how to go round he said you need to down loop the kite, but I said I will crash more quickly at scary speed, he said you will, but you have to feel that moment of going out of control to then you will build muscle memory and start to avoid it,
His words of wisdom stayed with me, and now I just love cranking hard and fast into a toe side turn, magic feeling, and now love cranking hard upwind over waves on toe side,
At the moment out here on Flag beach I am trying to help a good novice to complete his first toe side turn with confidence and enough speed to get all the way round, he is resisting my suggestion to down loop the kite into the turn, he looks me in the eye and says are you joking? I will shoot off and crash,
Today he will do one as I will lead into the turn,( and he will most likely crash) but by tomorrow he will crack it.
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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby br44 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:55 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:20 am
Agree, there IS no brake on hydrofoils - but it doesnt matter, when you have learned to anticipate things.

Corresponds to riding a hovercraft, there is no brake either (on most of them), you have to anticipate movements, and change power direction extremely early to avoid hitting things much later, and to change direction :rollgrin:

8) Peter
But.... there IS a brake on a hydrofoil! Sure, it cannot be edging - it is touching down.

Touch down in a controlled manner and you will lose speed fast. You also get some extra time to turn upwind and put your kite high.

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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:47 pm

I don't really count touching down as any more viable advice than crashing. Surface riding isn't really even foiling, besides, you try to scrub excess speed by touching down and your more than likely coming off due to the sudden onset of the drag. If you can stay on, you were already going pretty slow.

Touching down is a legit way to work your way through the mechanics of most foiling moves, but scrubbing speed, not so much.

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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby br44 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:38 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:47 pm
I don't really count touching down as any more viable advice than crashing. Surface riding isn't really even foiling, besides, you try to scrub excess speed by touching down and your more than likely coming off due to the sudden onset of the drag. If you can stay on, you were already going pretty slow.

Touching down is a legit way to work your way through the mechanics of most foiling moves, but scrubbing speed, not so much.
I’ve tried both methods and found there is a huge difference. With touch downs, you can keep on riding and there is obviously no crash - a big plus in colder conditions.

The drag does not come suddenly. You’re supposed to touch down a bit, then a bit more, losing speed along the way. And only if still in trouble should you go ahead and ride with the board on the water. But that’s only for a few moments before you start foiling again in a controlled manner.

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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby tegirinenashi » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:29 pm

My foil session count is probably approaching couple hundreds, but I occasionally struggle with this issue too. I'm specifically interested in scenario where you crank up TT sized kite for the conditions; which is essentially what racers do... Now, the upwind legs are phenomenal, as you literally sail straight into the wind. Also, there is certain appeal of the raw kite power that you lean against. However, all other directions are much less enjoyable. For broad reach one solution is to keep the kite high, but the control requires very fine input. Any swell or less than perfect conditions add disturbance to this already quite challenging ride. Sailing with kite low on beam reach is even more intimidating at first.

My understanding is that, as usual, it is the matter of practice. If racers can do it, everybody can do it too. Also, take a notice what equipment are they using. Their masts are tapered and 110 cm long. Tapered mast is better than the straight one, because its drag spans broader range of values. At the bottom tapered mast has thinner profile, which makes less drag. At the top it approaches 20 mm in thickness, which makes more drag, compared to the straight one. By submerging just the right mast height, a sailor can provide more control over the drag. Also, taller masts give you more room for an error.

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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby jumptheshark » Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:38 pm

br44 wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:38 pm
jumptheshark wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:47 pm
I don't really count touching down as any more viable advice than crashing. Surface riding isn't really even foiling, besides, you try to scrub excess speed by touching down and your more than likely coming off due to the sudden onset of the drag. If you can stay on, you were already going pretty slow.

Touching down is a legit way to work your way through the mechanics of most foiling moves, but scrubbing speed, not so much.
I’ve tried both methods and found there is a huge difference. With touch downs, you can keep on riding and there is obviously no crash - a big plus in colder conditions.

The drag does not come suddenly. You’re supposed to touch down a bit, then a bit more, losing speed along the way. And only if still in trouble should you go ahead and ride with the board on the water. But that’s only for a few moments before you start foiling again in a controlled manner.
We likely ride very different gear. I never opt to touch down purposefully in order to scrub speed. Once I'm worried about excess speed, its way too late for that. A deceleration wipe out is the result. I'm strapless on a pocket with quick kites. Much more natural to get the kite to climb, then carve.
Last edited by jumptheshark on Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to slow down the foil

Postby TomW » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:53 pm

You've got some good advice. Raise kite , turn upwind, or raise kite and go downwind. But really the key is to embrace the speed. Later you will seek it. The acceleration in foiling is one of the amazing things non foilers don't see or understand.


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