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Mast position - explain like I am 5

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Grizwald
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Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby Grizwald » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:48 pm

I am struggling to learn to foil behind a boat. I struggle to learn anything so this is expected. I am improving but it is just a bit slower than continental drift.
The instructions that came with the board state that beginners should position the mast as far back as possible. Being a good little nerd, this is what I did. I have a rear foot hook so my rear foot is essentially fixed.
I find that my weight is at least 80% on my rear leg and after a fairly short time communication from my rear leg and my brain devolves into name calling.
I am now experimenting with moving the mast forward which seems to be improving things.
So --the question-- Why does the manufacturer recommend having the mast as far back as possible? Why is this viewed as the best position for a new foiler?
Thank you for your insights.
Griz

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Re: Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby Pierrot » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:56 pm

What board an what foil are u using? You need to align your center of gravity with the center of lift (usualy somewhere between the front wing and the mast). So move your foot hooks or mast to allow that.
To make it easier to adjust, only use a front foot hook... or go strapless.

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Re: Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:36 pm

Grizwald wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:48 pm
So --the question-- Why does the manufacturer recommend having the mast as far back as possible? Why is this viewed as the best position for a new foiler?
Cos someone told them that was the best way to do it. It's a place to start, not the end goal. Unless it's perfect out of the bag for the rider :lol: it's viewed as a good position for a beginner because most beginners try to ride it like a TT and get their weight back on the rear foot. Mast all the way back counters this a little until you learn better form.

Assuming you have matched production gear, set your front strap to be as wide as loose as possible and ditch the rear hook or strap. Aim to put your feet in the middle of the strap holes.

Assuming again you've done that ... you've set your foil all the way back, your foil is rear foot heavy and so now you need to move the mast forward until you feel even pressure on both feet ... or whatever is comfy to you.

Go to a kid's park and stand on the top of a seesaw, with your feet on either side of the hinge -- now balance the seesaw with both ends off the ground. That's all you're doing on the foil.

Keep your feet the same width apart, but move yourself close towards one end... now try to balance the seesaw. The foot closer to the hinge will need more weight on it, and you'll feel that as uneven pressure on your feet.

That's what is happening with your foil. Move the mast forward to "balance" the whole setup. Take the tools with you, ride, move it forward a half inch, try again.

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Re: Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby joekitetime » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:47 pm

Ther reason the manufacturers recommend positioning the mast all the way back is because of riders exactly like you - people who don't understand the characteristics of the foil. For them all the way back is safest. As you progress in your skill level regarding balance, you will also progress in your knowledge of how the foil works. Once those two connect you will then understand, and your body can handle, moving the mast forward, if needed.

All the way back creates the least amount of lift for the given foil and board combo. You want that for a new rider who has yet to learn to combat that lift, both physically and mentally.
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Re: Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby grigorib » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:54 pm

Grizwald wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:48 pm
I am struggling to learn to foil behind a boat. I struggle to learn anything so this is expected. I am improving but it is just a bit slower than continental drift.
The instructions that came with the board state that beginners should position the mast as far back as possible. Being a good little nerd, this is what I did. I have a rear foot hook so my rear foot is essentially fixed.
I find that my weight is at least 80% on my rear leg and after a fairly short time communication from my rear leg and my brain devolves into name calling.
I am now experimenting with moving the mast forward which seems to be improving things.
So --the question-- Why does the manufacturer recommend having the mast as far back as possible? Why is this viewed as the best position for a new foiler?
Thank you for your insights.
Griz
Having mast as far back as possible is generally misleading suggestion because boards, tracks, foot placements, wing positions and mast rake are different depending on model/year of gear.

Have experienced, adequate foiler ride your setup, adjust it to perfection and his comfort and then move mast back by 1-1.5” being a beginner rider. Then you will gradually bring it forward as you progress.
Last edited by grigorib on Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:03 pm

joekitetime wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:47 pm
Ther reason the manufacturers recommend positioning the mast all the way back is because of riders exactly like you - people who don't understand the characteristics of the foil. For them all the way back is safest. As you progress in your skill level regarding balance, you will also progress in your knowledge of how the foil works. Once those two connect you will then understand, and your body can handle, moving the mast forward, if needed.

All the way back creates the least amount of lift for the given foil and board combo. You want that for a new rider who has yet to learn to combat that lift, both physically and mentally.
The amount is lift the foil produces at a given speed is unchanged and constant.

What you are changing with you alter the relative position of feet to mast is the pitch trim.

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Re: Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby PurdyKiter » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:14 pm

The original Liquid Force Fish when it was released told us to place the mast as far back as possible... but this was only for the first hour or two so as to get familiar with the mast and hardware under you. Once your stable move it forward and start flying.
Also... I don't like your rear foot inside a footstrap. Recipe for pain.
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Re: Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby juandesooka » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:22 pm

What joe said...its to minimize uncontrolled lift and catastrphic breaches on those first tries. Get a feel for the foil under you. Start a few short moments of flight. Then you can start fine tuning

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Re: Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby Grizwald » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:01 pm

Thank you everyone.

I looked at how the board is set up and using the hook as positioned it is obviously too close to the center of lift. I am, as Kamikuza suggested, going to take out my tools next time and do the adjustments in increments. I would be doing that now but there is an anvil cloud over my house that looks like the entrance to another dimension.

thank you again for your suggestions. stay safe.
Griz

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Re: Mast position - explain like I am 5

Postby fluidity » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:00 am

I haven't been down your learning path but how fast is the boat towing you? I think you want it moving only just fast enough that you can press down with your back foot and start climbing out of the water. With a big foil this is barely jogging speed.


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