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Any interest in eeeeee foils?

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Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby markchatwin » Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:21 pm

I had a chance to ride the Lift 5' "Sport" with smaller wing in Hatteras and what a great toy for the low wind days. Took me 20 minutes of futzing around with the water start and then I got it. Takeaways are:

1. It seems like 2 are in order in that it's really more fun if a buddy/girlfriend has one and you are cruising the coast talking together. The thing is quiet! If you had one you might not let your beginner friends ride it for fear of crashing it or running the foil into lake floor. Or, like a jet ski, you might not go through the rigmarole of getting it out of your car, carrying it to water, setting it up for just a solo ride.

2. You would just have to bend over and pay the $12k because cheaper alternatives without a track record, customer support, parts, etc would be too big a gamble. Also don't see the price coming down appreciably for a couple years. Covid has people spending money for some odd reason on big ticket items like boats, RV's, guitars. Maybe due to pure boredom - many people's jobs now at home... Covid has put a kibosh on any large scale productions of a lot of these "luxury" products.

3. There is more of a "drag" sensation or "clumpy" feel then say foiling while kiting, or wake foiling (spent all summer doing it and it's fun). Board is bigger and heavier. The prop has to add some drag. There is a parallel to riding an ebike vs acoustic bike. Ebike allows for longer sessions with less physical output and more "acreage" covered. Obviously better foilers will take these things out in waves and carve it up like a champ. Lift has a folding prop accessory that reduces drag when you get the energy from a wave and need no propulsion. But I think the bulk of riders will be the sight seeing types cruising up and down their local coastline.

Currently I see the Fliteboard, Lift, as the two major players. Biggest difference is in the position of prop and the way the hand remote works. Lift has prop 1/5 way up mast above wing, Fliteboard is in line with fuselage. Lift's remote is linear and Fliteboard's is fixed. There will clearly be a difference between these two boards even though they are essentially the same size and look. A new player, Marc Lagarde and Supernova is coming to the scene with an interesting design that features see through panels on the top of the board. You can find info on Lift and Fliteboard online at their websites and Marc's efoil on Facebook and website coming around October 15th.

I for one would like to emerge next spring with one of these toys. :D

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Re: Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby FLandOBX » Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:53 pm

Thanks for that review, Mark. I'm intrigued by eFoils, but haven't yet tried one. While I'd happily demo an eFoil, there are 2 reasons why I doubt I'll ever own one.

(1) A major attraction to kite hydrofoiling and, in general, all wind driven sports (windsurfing, sailing, kiteboarding, landboarding, etc.) is the natural propulsion provided by the wind. I've owned jet skis, ski and wakeboard boats, and all variations of gas powered boats, but none has the aesthetic appeal of a wind-driven vessel. A quiet electric motor seems more appealing than a gas motor, but I don't think either compares favorably to wind power for pure, aesthetic appeal.

(2) $12k would buy a lot of new kites and hydrofoil gear. At current levels, eFoils are just too expensive.

I'll be interested to see if eFoils have a future role in teaching other disciplines of hydrofoiling (surf, kite, wake, etc.). The investment might make sense for a school devoted to teaching beginners to foil. So far, most beginner foilers seem to be self-taught, but I suppose that could change as foiling gains a wider following.
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Re: Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby windmaker » Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:01 pm

Looks to me like something I would use a couple of times and then get bored with it.

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Re: Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby grigorib » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:05 pm

Mackite has two e-foils coming out soon at $4700-$7800 range. Waydoo funded by DJI and Takuma. Both maintain their reputation. Competitions is finally kicking in and I assume Lift and Flite will drop their prices too.

Midwest summers are dead wind-wise and lots of people living next to a major body of water enjoy watersports. So it wouldn’t hurt as much spending a week or two without foiling, because efoils will be saving the days. An hour and a half of foiling a day would certainly do it for me.

It’s like a water Segway. A bit expensive but after 12 years and 1000+ miles on mine I have no regrets except regrets I haven’t been taking it to more trips and getting more friends ride it. efoils are a bit bulky just as Segway is, but it’s so nice to dial a session in whenever you feel like doing it, not only when it’s windy.

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Re: Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby davesails7 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:18 pm

Green hat had a few videos of the Waydoo recently. They said it has about the same run time, about the same weight as the lift, a little less refined, but less than half the price. I agree, looks fun, I'd like to try it, but not planning to buy one.
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Re: Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby markchatwin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:20 am

FlandOBX - I think the role of using the e-foil as a teaching aid for all things foiling will be a definite plus. The ways to learn foiling now are behind a boat, with a kite, with a wing or SUP, pumping and being towed out to waves, and of course windsurfing. All these require lots of gear and/or wind. With e-foil you just hop on and learn the balance. Granted the teaching facility needs to buy into these but with prices coming down to $6Kish it might not be far off.

I hear you on the wind being natural propulsion and the greatest high... But where I live we get so many sub 8mph days that SUP and kayaking, wake boarding (which needs a boat) are our only choices. The e-foil is a natural choice around here in Syracuse where e-bikes, e-skateboards, one wheels are common on low wind days. And many of our kiting community have turned to kite foiling so there are a lot of us with foiling skills.

I sort of see that the thrill factor is questioned here. That's why I feel like its a 2 unit purchase. Me and buddy, me and my wife, so you have someone to go out and cruise with. Plus there are many days up north here where I can foresee getting lower half of body wet while getting on and then quickly getting up so upper half stays dry and warm and you simply cruise. Maybe even a dock start is possible so no getting wet at all...

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Re: Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby Trent hink » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:48 am

I got to try out the Lift e-foil a week or two ago, but at 45, I have not yet even spent 12 grand on an automobile.

Its tons of fun, with some previous hydrofoil experience and a few minutes of instruction I got up and riding around on my second or third attempt.

But the price!

Even here in SW Florida, in the dead days of summer, there were only maybe three weeks at most where where I did not get a chance to ride 1-3 days a week, and I have a full-time job.

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Re: Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby longwhitecloud » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:08 am

its fun, the swing weight is very very high though when carving around..

I have spent time bombing around on a friends, super fun but didnt have the i want to do it over and over again factor though. Maybe people will race them?

Quite fun seeing peoples reactions that have never seen one as you fly around.

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Re: Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:19 am

I got it the same way as you Trent, can ride almost every day when off work, varying winds from 5 to 30 knots yes, but hardly ever "no wind" where one can not kitefoil.

Even if, it is nice to have a "Day off" from surfing ha haa - and do all the other things you know you should've done instead :naughty:

I can see the attraction if you live without open sea so no waves to surf, and maybe no wind either.

I have ridden my friends Fliteboard foil, really fun to try, and wow you go crazy (scary) fast the first time you go from semifoiling board on the surface, and then suddenly foil free where you race between 30 and 45 km/h, coming from almost no speed when on the surface.
But you can still carve hard, after a while when you have learned - quite amazing how you can crank it down without having the edge catch, as it is quite round and well balanced.

Would be boring quite fast I think.

And the principle, having a motor, is plain wrong to me.

Seeking and using the wind and waves, is what attracts me to the sea :rollgrin:

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Re: Any interest in eeeeee foils?

Postby blackswan » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:06 pm

I just bought a 4'4 lift efoil! It gets here later this week. I have ridden them a few times and they are very fun to ride. $12k is hard to stomach, yes. For me it is similar to the decision to learn to kitefoil after learning on a twin tip - yes it is expensive to start, but once you do it opens up way more opportunity to get out there in the water and have fun. Once you have an efoil, you can have an awesome session ANY day. For me this summer I spent a lot of time pushing the low wind boundary with a 15m kite + foil, but now that I have an efoil I can focus my kite sessions for the times when the wind is really solid. I will probably sell that 15m kite.

Anyway my point is the efoil is like a new sport. If I had a choice between a perfect 15kt flat water day on the kitefoil and a 0 wind day on the efoil, I would still choose the kite foil. But having the efoil means that you can ride in all sorts of new places (rivers/lakes/no wind/offshore wind), and can ride whenever is convenient. No longer do I feel the need to try to "force" kite sessions in when the conditions are marginal.

So my quiver now is:

0-12 kts: efoil
12-17: kitefoil
17+: twintip

Anyway I guess I'll update in a few weeks/months if I get bored of it! If I do get bored I can probably find someone to buy the efoil at a nice discount (maybe the local kite shop).

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