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High wind foiling

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Alysum
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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Alysum » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:56 pm

I'm in Sydney and I enjoy kite foiling my ozone alpha 8m anywhere between 14-18k on axis 680/390 foil.
After that I step down to a 7m wave kite.
However once 21kn I'm overpowered and it's not fun.
I'm trying to decide between a 5m or 4m for mid to high 20kn (typical strong late seabreeze).
If it's over 30kn I'll be wing foiling instead.
Should I get a 4 or 5m?
I was looking at a couple of second hand North Carve wave kites from last year.
Thoughts?

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby tomtom » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:44 pm

4

lebast
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Re: High wind foiling

Postby lebast » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:53 pm

have both and feel like the 5 is a lot more versatile.
5 ~23-28
4 ~26-32

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:05 pm

Yeah, get a 5

Then get a 4!

On one hand you can skip plenty of sizes and still make it work on foil, but eventually you get tired of having the kite put limitations on how you ride, especially as the conditions get bigger and better.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Flyboy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:19 am

Bottom line: I just ordered a (used) Boxer 3.5m. It will be interesting to see how low I can go with such a small kite.

Yesterday I was out with a 6m wave kite on my foil when the peeps went out on SBs with 8 & 9m kites. Was probably around 20 knots. I was fine on the 6m, although would probably have been better on my 5m. The wind eventually dropped to around 12 - 14 knots. The SBs all went in. I was fine still riding the 6m. I'm hoping the 3.5 will start to work in 18 knots, be ideal in 20 - 25 knots & hang in to 30 knots.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:54 am

Flyboy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:19 am
Bottom line: I just ordered a (used) Boxer 3.5m. It will be interesting to see how low I can go with such a small kite.

Yesterday I was out with a 6m wave kite on my foil when the peeps went out on SBs with 8 & 9m kites. Was probably around 20 knots. I was fine on the 6m, although would probably have been better on my 5m. The wind eventually dropped to around 12 - 14 knots. The SBs all went in. I was fine still riding the 6m. I'm hoping the 3.5 will start to work in 18 knots, be ideal in 20 - 25 knots & hang in to 30 knots.

I think you are spot on regarding the windranges.

One thing, I would advice you to use a tad longer lines for the 3.5 m2, say 26-27 meter.

You will get a kite that is extremely on/off, because of its sheer small size, so you have to adjust to fly it - but this is the very same with the Peaks 3 and 4 m2.
Having a tad longer lines, you dont lose upper end, unless when getting at the very upper end - if that makes sense to say?
Meaning, you dont get more power with longer lines, just a more smooth ride - but if on the verge to getting teabagged, of course turning and handling is easier with the short ones.

But the advantage is, you get a kite which reacts a lot smoother in terms of power delivery, you can fly it around more, and get power on demand in a much more pleasant way.
Apart from being able to go down to 18 knots, not possible with shorter lines.

With foil kites it is a bit different, they have the same feel and power, with a tad shorter lines in my experience (I have a 3.5 LEI and 3 and 4 m2 Peaks)

I dont know if off topic or not, but yesterday I was out and could compare to waveboards and wingfoil and kitefoil with a 3 m2 Peak4.

Rode with an 8 m2 on a light wind waveboard first, quite okay wind maybe 18 knots.

Sometimes down to 14, didnt work with the waveboard, but wind came up again for moments.

Then I went out with a 3 m2 Peak4 on a 1200 cm2 Ketos surf wing, eventhough I knew a 4 m2 would fit better (but lines/bars were on the 3 and 5 m2, so lazy and took the 3).
Amazingly I could ride okay even in these 14-18 knots, of course having to fly it fast to get going, but these small kites, both LEI and foils, gives sooooo much peak power, that you can ride even when "underpowered" as such.

Then I went out wingfoiling with 5 m2, and a 4 m2 wing.

Later the wind dropped even more and got on/off, and I took the 3 m2 again; it was still possible to ride in this, on the verge "not to", but you could, when you flew it aggressively (only std 21 m lines).

The same was my experience with my 3.5 m2 LEI kite, one can ride it down to ridiculously low winds sometimes, IF having sufficient line length.
It is a high AR kite though, so has a huge powerspike compared to most other small LEI's.

Not sweetspot and difficult as still sensitive, and to be honest not very good fun, but found it fun these few time "just doing it" - while others were on 12 m2 kites on non-foil boards :rollgrin:


Looking forward to hear your experiences Flyboy, in the long run :D

8) Peter

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Alysum » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:49 pm

lebast wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:53 pm
have both and feel like the 5 is a lot more versatile.
5 ~23-28
4 ~26-32
You have both sizes north carve specifically? How do you like the carve? Cheers

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:17 pm

Alysum wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:49 pm
lebast wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:53 pm
have both and feel like the 5 is a lot more versatile.
5 ~23-28
4 ~26-32
You have both sizes north carve specifically? How do you like the carve? Cheers

I am curious to your windranges lebast, what do you weigh, and which type do you ride?

Big surf wings, or faster wings and jumping?

As a 5 m2 LEI sweetspot for big hydrofoil wings is around 18-19 knots for me average weight 78 kg, starts a bit below , and gets way too big when 23 knots.
This is where you start lebast, 23 knots, and up to 28?

Even on a surfboard, a 5 m2 starts to get in the high end in 28 knots for most (26-27 knots sweetspot I think), where you still use your 5 on a hydrofoil.

Impressive, but could be different ways of riding, and smaller wing maybe?
These ranges seems a lot higher than I know others use for big "surfstyle" foil wings, even most in this thread, so curious.

Average wind I presume :D

8) Peter

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Flyboy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:00 pm

I have the impression that a lot of people over-estimate the wind strength. At my local spot everybody rides SBs. They are all pretty experienced. The kite sizes chosen are very uniform. At 18 - 23 knots people are using 8m/9m kites, 23 - 28 they are on 7m kites, 28 & up they are on 5m kites. Biggest guys may use the bigger kite for a couple of knots extra than the smaller guys.

I have only used 23m lines for foiling. Tried 20m lines one day with the 5m & didn't like it at all.

My wing size is around 1000 cm2. This seems like a nice compromise between speed & maneuverability. I'm wondering if a 1200 cm2 will add anything to the wave riding potential (with a smaller kite)?
Last edited by Flyboy on Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby drsurf » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:15 pm

Like Peter F. I use Peak4 kites most of the time and all the time in winds under 18 knots.
I have one Connect bar I use for all the Peak4 kites and leave it connected to the last kite used. This means if I'm lazy, I'll tend to use the kite the bar is attached to rather than rig another size Peak4. So after a windy day with 3m, I'll find the next day of usable wind may be only 12-15 knots.

Most of the time if I think I've got a chance of getting going I'll leave the smaller kite on and hope the wind is enough or strengthens. This has led to days I'm foiling around on a 3m Peak4 with other kiters on TT boards using kites up to 15-17m :o
One tip when using such a small Peak4 with other behemoth kites around, don't fly your kite very close to the backwash of a large LEI kite, your kite will collapse as if it was in a vacuum, and flutter to the water!

However I'm still amazed at what I can get away with in light wind with a 3m Peak4 and my 65kg. All I've got to do is be able to get up onto the board, flogging the kite all over the sky if necessary, and I'm easily able to get foiling and have no trouble getting upwind and riding waves downwind. With only 620gms in the air even a patch of low wind can be overcome with some active kite flying and foil pumping. There is so little friction with a good surf foil that you can comfortably foil with very little pull. It's the lulls which can drop a heavier kite especially if you're turning downwind and get your timing wrong. The Peak4 is very forgiving of timing mistakes and can pull you out of trouble with a few flicks of the wrist.

Harking back to the topic of this thread, a 3m Peak4 is so inexpensive that it's worth having in your quiver for high winds if you're on a surf foil. Trouble is you may find it so much fun you'll be eyeing of the next size Peak4 :D
My next aim is to increase the high end wind range of the 3m P4 even further with 12m lines as per jumptheshark's experience. The fun never ends on a foil :)


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