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High wind foiling

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lebast
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Re: High wind foiling

Postby lebast » Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:25 pm

@Alysum: 5 Naish Pivot, 4 Naish Slash

@Peter Frank:
My style looks like this in underpowered 9 conditions


Ketos Wave XL, 178cm, 66kg, 24 or 20m line length on 5 and 4m²
Enough power and lift for strapless jumps, but don't want to get pulled out of the wave.

@Flyboy same impression and thoughts ;) but I don't get the big wing hype either.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:59 pm

Thanks lebast - it just shows that there are HUGE differences in what we like to ride in :naughty:

You are 15 to 20 % lighter, use a smaller front wing (35 %), and ride with the 5 m2 sweetspot in 90 % more windpower than I do (25.5*25.5/18.5/18.5 ~ +90 %).

Incredible, but means it is impossible to compare windrange, and we are all really different as individuals :roll:

It seems wing size (lift) means A LOT more than at first thought - could that be it :wink:

I usually find the difference between my 790 cm2 Ketos WaveXL and 1200 cm2 Kool1200 wing is not that big, as you ride faster with the 790 so get more apparent wind.

8) Peter
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Cefirmeza
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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Cefirmeza » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:25 pm

Anyone tried the slingshot rally gt for foiling?
I am thinking about switching my 6m rpm for a new rally gt same size.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Flyboy » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:12 am

lebast wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:25 pm
@Alysum: 5 Naish Pivot, 4 Naish Slash

@Peter Frank:
My style looks like this in underpowered 9 conditions


Ketos Wave XL, 178cm, 66kg, 24 or 20m line length on 5 and 4m²
Enough power and lift for strapless jumps, but don't want to get pulled out of the wave.

@Flyboy same impression and thoughts ;) but I don't get the big wing hype either.

Why on earth do they call a 790 cm2 wing a WaveXL - that seems like a throw back to 2016?

Your planning ability is obviously affected by that funky soul music. :cool2:

As far as I can tell, there's a certain point where you're able to generate enough power to get up & going on the foil - probably around 12 knots - regardless of the size of the kite you're using. I haven't actually experimented with this. In 12 knots I would use my 8m, but I could certainly get going with my 6m & have on occasion ... I could probably get going with my 5m also. On the other hand I have seen members of the Woo crew using 15m foil kites in 15 knots.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 am

lebast wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:25 pm
@Alysum: 5 Naish Pivot, 4 Naish Slash

@Peter Frank:
My style looks like this in underpowered 9 conditions


Ketos Wave XL, 178cm, 66kg, 24 or 20m line length on 5 and 4m²
Enough power and lift for strapless jumps, but don't want to get pulled out of the wave.

@Flyboy same impression and thoughts ;) but I don't get the big wing hype either.

Nice video, good moves and music :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

The WaveXL is a great allround wing indeed, I use it often too, especially if no waves, it is a "must".

Luckily I can usually always find a bit of waves, and use an even bigger wing - but being almost 20 % heavier it makes sense, that I change between these.

For 66 kg the WaveXL would correspond to something around 950 cm2 for the average weight, which is perfect for most freeride/wave/freestyle riders.

Still amazed you as a lightweight use a 5 m2 in 27 knots (14 m/s) for freeride foiling, where even average weight surfboard riders are fully powered or on the upper end with a 5 :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Alysum » Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:03 pm

Reading this thread I'm seeing a lot of different kind of kites being used for high wind which makes it harder to choose!

I would have thought that for 20+kn any wave kite would be good as it drifts well when you're riding the swell and the 3 struts makes it fast turning. Any kite will fly in that wind.

I can totally understand the advantages of the Peak4, mono strut, no struts in light winds. But over 20kn, why would you choose that over a wave kite?

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jumptheshark
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Re: High wind foiling

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:00 pm

I have to respectfully disagree. Over the last few seasons I have experimented foiling in higher winds with five, three, single, strutless and Peak4s. In sizes 9,8.5,8,7,6.25,6,5,4,3.5 and 3m.

I remember being stoked holding a 9m 5 strut Rally into 20 knots and feeling like I'd found something completely new! Eventually, with more experience and skill, you realize the same advantages that make the lighter kites a better option in light winds are at play in winds over 20 knots. The speeds at which you ride down wind/swell are fast and absolutely bring weight front and centre to performance and freedom of movement.

You are correct that above 20, everything will work, but extra struts and extra weight don't make a kite turn faster. Smaller kites turn faster! Struts give more solid structure on the high end, but they have diminishing returns as the canopy size starts to get below 6m. For those truly unwilling to drop the struts, a single strut is more than enough in kites 5m and down. Still, they drift, recover and purposefully stall back nothing like even lighter and smaller kites. The difference in dexterity and depower makes for a pretty different overall experience. Like many venturing into higher winds on foil, I spent a fair bit of time overpowered on three strut 6m kites. Eventually you find yourself in waves you are willing and able to take advantage of on foil only to realize your kite won't let you go and do what you want. The moment you try, you have way too much power. You can safely go out there in among these phat tantalizing swells, but can't actually ride any. This is a truly agonizing moment and generally once is enough to get you shopping for something that will let you ride the way you want. Sizing down in both weight and canopy opens the options right back up to where they were in less wind and you realize that three strut kites really have no place in high wind foiling. They can be used just as any kite "CAN" be used but eventually, you won't bother. You will either go back to surfboards an miss out, or buy in and get a 3m.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby br44 » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:58 pm

Fully agree with jumptheshark. But for me, it’s not just the swells. Some places where I ride only get 1-2-foot waves in 20+ knots. Even so; heading straight downwind on a foil is magic....the best. And that made me think about downwinders — on a kite foil! Having the proper kite there is very important.

Sure, any kite will work if you just ride across the wind. But if you want to be able to reach out for the best, deep downwind, you will want to try strutless and single skin kites. For example the Concept Air Firefly drifts as well as the Peak4, but is water relaunchable.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Janus » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:51 pm

Compare prices between the Firefly and the Peak4.. 😎
I’ve heard a rumor that FS is coming with something new... I won’t guess any further but I’ll bet it is aimed at foiling and probably easier water relauncheable

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Flyboy » Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:45 pm

Different strokes. I used to kite with a guy who foiled with race gear & foil kites. His thing was jumping. He would use a 12m Soul when I was using a 9m kite & a SB. He was great at jumping, but hadn't even bothered learning to gybe on foil.

Guys on a SBs typically use a kite 2m or even 3m smaller than the guys on TTs. Big air specialists might use a kite 1 or 2m bigger than the average TT rider.

I've made the decision to go with a single strut 3.5m. I hope I get the opportunity to try it before it gets too cold. Other topic: I find I get much colder foiling than riding a SB. I think there's so much less physical effort required foiling that you generate less body heat. :-?


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