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High wind foiling

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OzBungy
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Re: High wind foiling

Postby OzBungy » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:07 am

Flyboy wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:04 am
Yeah - but what is a "tiny kite" ... and what does it feel like to use it? Based on my experience, I would say that a 5m LEI starts to feel a bit big in around 18 knots. Doable for a few knots more, but not ideal for carving in swell/waves. ....
You need to stop asking questions and get a bit more experience. It's all up to how you ride and what you're trying to do. If you're having trouble dealing with stronger winds then you need more practice.

The range of each size of kite with a foil is huge. You can ride almost any size you want and make it work. You've got vastly more bottom end than TT and surfboard, but you've still got the same top end.

You've still got the same body weight and you can edge a foil just as hard as any other kind of board. When you bear off the low friction of the foil immediately dumps excess power and you can swoosh around all you want.

I prefer my 4m in the high 20's up to 40+ knots. It's workable down to the upper mid-teens, but I prefer plenty of power so go for a bigger kite if it's lighter. The 5m is a nice all rounder and good for 15-30.

In the lower-mid teens almost anything works. I've been using my 12m in 10-20 because with lockdown sessions I don't want to be stuck underpowered. We're only allowed out for a limited time so I don't want to waste time changing kites. The fluttering of a depower 12m in 20 knots is a bit tedious.

With a tiny kite in huge winds I tend to avoid roll tacks. Getting them wrong in strong winds often results in an ugly spanking. Conversely, tacking a 12m kite in 17-18 knots is absurdly easy.

PS We have a few Cloud kite riders. They do twirly spinny tricks with big foils, zero buoyancy strapless boards and 2.8m kites
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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Foil » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:23 am

Where you sail makes heaps of difference to the quality of the wind and water shapes which makes enjoyment in high winds better or worse,
I am still looking in amazement at the difference between this factor at my present sailing location here on furteventura's flag beach and back home in the UK, the winds here on Flag are just so steady, silky smooth, only 1 knt between minimum speed and gust strength, many times they match, rock steady air flow, and the waves or wind chop is easy to manage, with 8 to 16 second wave periods,
compare that with the UK frontal winds that often have over a 50% difference between wind speed and gust strength, and sloppy confused waves coming in from all directions and often fast and hard to follow,
Lots of time on the water certainly increases ability to tough it out in less easy conditions, and it's often a challenge to see how hard you can go and still really enjoy the session, but just as doing the same in other wind driven watersports there is a point where it becomes much less enjoyable and more of a survival challenge, be it foiling,Ttips, windsurfing, sailing boats, the wipe outs start to be risky and hurt more, chance of damage to gear or self harm becomes a worry,
On my foil I set my limits inside the outer edges of when the fear factor starts to creep in, and have learned to stop , think, think again and sometimes bin the session before I start to walk to the water, and that looks like winds gusting over 30knts or short period waves of over 2,2 mtrs

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby tomtom » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:24 am

When somebody talking about foiling in 35 knots all information you get is about somebody inability to measure wind.
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Re: High wind foiling

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:23 am

I think this was 25knots and up (2.5m kite). Was filmed a couple of years ago. You'll need skills but high wind is doable. I think the medium to high aspect wings work better (are easier to ride?) because you don't get the same surges of the wind gusts as your apparent wind is higher.


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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:36 am

tomtom wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:24 am
When somebody talking about foiling in 35 knots all information you get is about somebody inability to measure wind.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So true!!!!

I take a 15m race kite every time, except when I take my 11m. That's about as freaking confusing as I try to make it. When it's a hurricane, you kite the next day not the day-of. Pretty simple stuff. For most people, overpowered is a state of mind or a feeling in their crotch from their seat harness.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Flyboy » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:46 pm

OzBungy wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:07 am
Flyboy wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:04 am
Yeah - but what is a "tiny kite" ... and what does it feel like to use it? Based on my experience, I would say that a 5m LEI starts to feel a bit big in around 18 knots. Doable for a few knots more, but not ideal for carving in swell/waves. ....
You need to stop asking questions and get a bit more experience. It's all up to how you ride and what you're trying to do. If you're having trouble dealing with stronger winds then you need more practice.
Yeah - why would I ask questions about kites on a kite forum? :roll:

I have years of experience riding a SB in high winds with a 5m. That experience tells me that the ideal wind range for the 5m is high 20's to mid 30's. As a 5m is the smallest kite I have owned there are times when I'll be out when the wing is gusting over 35 knots. It's rideable but not fun as the wind tends to be very unstable & it's hard to ride waves when you're being pulled too hard to bottom turn in control. I've never bought a smaller kite than a 5m because my impression is that over 35 knots - at least where I kite) wind stronger than that tends to be so unstable that a smaller kite would just be too on/off.

Like most people I started foiling in "light winds" - 10 - 15 knots. As my foiling experience has increased I have started choosing to foil in stronger winds - 15 - 20 knots because riding moderate swell with a foil is a lot more fun than on a SB. My session a few days was the first time I was out in 20 - 30 knots. I had no problem going upwind several kilometres & riding back downwind. I had no problem gybing. However, although it was rideable, because yeah - you're still on small kite relative to the wind strength - it was far from ideal. The waves/swell would have been way more fun to ride if I had a lot less power in the kite. Unlike riding a SB, riding a foil gives you so much glide you don't need constant power, so a really small kite seems like a more reasonable proposition.

So, my stupid question is: what kite size for 18 - 25 knots? I think above that I would still be riding my SB for the foreseeable future. I think the ideal range for foiling on my existing 5m is about 15 - 20 knots. In my mind, choices would be a 4m or a 3.5m LEI, or a 3m Peak4 - hard to get hold off right now, & I'm not sure that starting off with a 3m Peak4 really makes sense.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:19 pm

Why does a 3 m2 Peak4 not make sense to you?

I wee it as the perfect choice for 18 to 25 knots :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Flyboy » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:54 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:19 pm
Why does a 3 m2 Peak4 not make sense to you?

I wee it as the perfect choice for 18 to 25 knots :thumb:

8) Peter
First: they don't seem to be available at the minute. Second, it would seem to me that it would make mores sense to start with a larger Peak4 rather than going straight to the 3m. That means a complete new quiver, which I can't afford right now. I can pick up a 3.5 Solo or 3.5 Boxer cheap.

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:57 pm

You don't need a new quiver, the 3 m2 is the perfect extension to your 5 m2 LEI.

But you need time to learn to handle it of course, sensitive.

If not available in the US what about the Conceptair Firefly instead?

8) Peter

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Re: High wind foiling

Postby airsail » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:02 pm

Compared the 4 mtr Uno and the 4 mtr Peak on the same day, my guess is 25-30 knots. The Uno was good, bit overpowered but still fun. The Peak wasn’t fun, flapping like a banshee. Yes, I should have been on smaller sizes but showed that the Peak needs to be used it’s wind range, otherwise it’s a brilliant kite.
Personally I dislike small 3 strut LEI’s, very on and off, I had the 5 mtr Reo and it was not great for foiling. I guess they are just shrunken larger sizes and don’t get the testing. The single or no strut tiny kites seem to work better in the higher winds, seem to be more forgiving in gusts.
I think you will be surprised how small you can go, a 5 mtr is a fairly large high wind hydrofoil kite, I now have 2 sizes under that and will be buying a third. I can use my 3.7 in 15 knots, but only just.


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