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Best kite for hydrofoil?

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jumptheshark
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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby jumptheshark » Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:39 pm

@ azoele

I again point out that it’s the smaller peaks that have proven suitable for foiling. I have no doubt the 13 saves you sessions but it’s not a candidate as “best” in class. Don’t think I would ever want to foil in 8 knots but if I did, I’d stay pretty close to shore regardless of what kite!

Swimming with a bigger peak is not likely much fun at all. You would have to be quick and decisive. Have done plenty on purpose wet exits with the 5m and it requires a plan and decent execution. There is no winging it without expecting a tangled heavy and potentially dangerous mess. In the circumstances you describe of a downed kite with no line tension and current.... well no kite goes back up, and you better have a wet exit plan.

For the intrepid, it’s all been said. After a full and varied season hydrofoiling on small peaks, they have proven to be far and away the best kites for carving on a hydrofoil I’ve found. I have four years foiling with clouds, single strut and three strut kites for comparison. Relaunch is a boogie man and has not proven to be an issue at all. Ultra low weight and amazing stability/dexterity more than compensate. Spend a bit of time learning to relaunch them and you can figure it out. I swam a grand total of once this season because I was all of 12 feet from shore and simply easier.

Anyone with half a brain can understand that Peaks are not for everyone, even so, they can still be the best kite for wave/carve foiling. Most kiters can’t wave/carve foil let alone think for themselves. For those that can, there are amazing options out there.
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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby drsurf » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:49 pm

@ Shadow Jack and following on from jumpthesharks post on the previous page.
For the reasons you describe, the Peak4 is the kite that will do what you want. As far as inland/freshwater conditions ... read the Peak4 thread viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2401224
Horst Sergio who started this thread and got me interested in the Peak4 mainly flies his Peak4's on " Every puddle I can find in Central Europe"

However don't take our word for it, or for that matter anyones word on any kite. Try the kites you are hearing about first. I'm not sure where you are located, but I can't believe that there aren't people not too far away from you that have single strut, no strut and Peak4 kites you could try. I know for a fact that the number of Peak4 kites out there in the world is quite high as sales of the kite for hydrofoiling was unexpected and Flysurfer has been flat out meeting that demand over the past year.

Let us know approximately where you're located, (and no, we won't come around force you to buy a Peak4) :o I'm sure there'll be a few kiters on this forum who are not too far away who'll give you a fly of their kit.

And just a PS. Occasionally I've had to swim in. Perhaps 2 or 3 times a year when I haven't been able to launch the kite. If you approach the kite correctly and bundle it up with a bit of care you won't end up with tangled bridles or being tangled in bridles.
Now in the past month I've seen three 2m to 3m sharks right in the area where I kite in chest deep water. Sharks are a lot easier to see from a foil. Not even the fact that the sharks are white pointers and bronze whalers on our coastline, (which can be a bit bitey), deters me from using the Peak4.
Mind you these sharks are right where beachgoers swim every day so they can't be too hungry for humans.

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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby Shadow Jack » Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:41 pm

Ok, guys, I clearly can see all benefits of Peak. Yes, I tried it on snow, and I was pretty impressed. BUT when I think of relaunching it on deep cold water - I think NOOOWAY!!!!. And I am talking not about this situation, when wind drops down and kite is falling without any chance to relaunch (any kite does that, some needs more wind, some less). But any foilkite, even closed cell, can get in unrelaunchible state even is wind is fine. And when you learn - it happens often. Moreover, any Peak review found on youtube says "water relaunch is a problem".
I had enough swims with Sonics, and I promised to myself at least for one season to skip foilkites. Due to your opinions (really grateful for that!) I’ll give Peak a try some day, and I’m damn curious!). But anyway, if Peak has got the first place in category "best hydrofoiling kite", I’ll choose second (or even third) best one - inflatible single strut. Just because of relaunch issues.

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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby gl » Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:21 pm

I have only flown Peak 4 in 11 and 8 metre. I bought them for snow but have tried them on the water and quite like them. I only fly foil kites and I've never owned an LEI. So I cannot comment on them. I will almost never use the Peaks on water now that I have an 8-meter Firefly. The 8 metre peak and 8 Firefly don't feel exactly the same but they do the same thing for me. The only difference is I can drift launch the Firefly 8 in winds that I can't foil in and if I ever drop the kite it relaunches easily. I would say the peak flies in a little less wind but that is wind that I could not foil in anyways with an eight metre. I like having the option of being able to water launch effortlessly and not have to worry if I dropped the kite. Having said that I think the Peaks are terrific kites. Below 10 knots I use a closed cell 9 or 12 foil kite.

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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby knot_moving » Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:01 am

Holy shit - how many ways can this guy ask for recommendations and insight on relaunchability of single strut kites???? And somehow all we hear about are Peaks?
I just swam in again after my 7 yr old 13m Velocity hit the water and would not relaunch - so I am really interested in this too.
So please -- at least for me I am looking for a 1 strut kite that easily and reliably relaunches in 10kts & will let me play around on my slingshot surf foil.

Happy New Years All!

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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby airsail » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:47 am

I’ve used Ultra’s, Peaks, Clouds and UFO’s. For relaunch the Clouds and UFO’s are the go in 10 knots and over, 6.2 in the Cloud or 7 mtr in the UFO.
The low aspect no struts just roll over and launch so easy. If you need a strut look at the Slingshot Ghost, very similar to the UFO but with a strut. I don’t trust the bigger size no struts, I have the 8mtr Cloud, gets me going in 7 knots but iffy relaunch in that light wind.
The Ultra was ok, but not dedicated for foiling and relaunch could be a pain sometimes, needed more wind to launch than the Cloud as it doesn’t roll over as well.
I owned the 4 mtr Peak 4, great kite, great drift, but I’d rather be kiting than swimming and as I was learning tacks I started feeling like I was training for an Olympic swimming event.

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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby Skywalker7 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:08 pm

Shadow Jack wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:42 pm
Hi, bros!
What kite do you think is the best choice for foiling? Obviously, for each style of riding it would be different kites. It would be cool to discuss!

Personaly, I'm looking for kite to ride slow and playful on a big wing (1200), flat water. Learn turns, ride strapless and so on... Think of 3 strut kite, which has to be stable, comfortibe, drift nicely and relaunch easely. First, that comes to my mind, is wave kites, like Cabrinha Drifter. What do you think?

My experience: fast foil kites - for race foils (small wings) and experienced riders. Works fantastic! Last season I used foil kites (flysurfer sonic2&3) on RDB FreeRace foil. When switched to LEI kite, advantages of nice foil wings disappeared (decreased speed and upwind angle, which where incredible with Sonics). Learning turns and tricks on foil kites is much more complicated, than on LEI kites.
If you are already using Sonics you know how to handle and restart a foil kite. I do ride Sonic 3 and Peaks as well but I would suggest you to try the Soul 9m and 7m kites. Soul 9m has more power than a 11m tube kite, still way ligther than any of the tube kites (other than alulla) and does relaunch from 6-7 knots. Soul 9 and 7M is even lower aspect kites than bigger sizes and very fast turning and looping kites. I am 95 kg and can start from 7 knots on Soul 9m on an 1300 surf foil. 9-10 knots is total fun kiting. Just try them.
Peaks are best choice for riding waves as they have an insane drift but they will flap when overpowered just as the single strut or no struts kites. I use Sonic 3 11M for hydrfoil airstyle sessions in 10-16 knots on Moses 590 wing and can jump 5-10m heights easily which is great fun and not requiring too much hydrofoil skill.

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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby PurdyKiter » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:33 pm

airsail wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:47 am
I’ve used Ultra’s, Peaks, Clouds and UFO’s. For relaunch the Clouds and UFO’s are the go in 10 knots and over, 6.2 in the Cloud or 7 mtr in the UFO.
The low aspect no struts just roll over and launch so easy. If you need a strut look at the Slingshot Ghost, very similar to the UFO but with a strut. I don’t trust the bigger size no struts, I have the 8mtr Cloud, gets me going in 7 knots but iffy relaunch in that light wind.
The Ultra was ok, but not dedicated for foiling and relaunch could be a pain sometimes, needed more wind to launch than the Cloud as it doesn’t roll over as well.
I owned the 4 mtr Peak 4, great kite, great drift, but I’d rather be kiting than swimming and as I was learning tacks I started feeling like I was training for an Olympic swimming event.
Been on Clouds forever. My 8m has been my meat 'n potatoes kite in light winds and large Moses wing. But...I recently migrated to Aluula Roam kites and never looking back. In my life these Roams feel very similar to the Clouds but with the added joy of a solid airframe shaping that 3 struts provide. This means more controlled pull in loops, great relaunch, steady "lift" for foot-switch/tacks. Light bar pressure a la Cloud. Quick pivot turns, or wide power sweeping turns. Incredible slack line drift down the line.

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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby GregK » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:32 am

+1 for Purdy-Kiter's comments !

Need to add three additional features that improve the light-wind relaunch of Aluula kites :

1. Aluula LE is very stiff, the kite hold its C shape when reverse-launching one side of the kite by pulling that steering line

2. the smaller LE diameter holds less water in the notch between the front of the canopy and the back end of the LE ( note this could also be a down-side as water doesn't have to splash quite as high to get into the notch )

3. Aluula fabric is very hydrophobic, water beads and runs off, reducing surface tension forces as the kite lifts off the water surface

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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Postby Sceotend » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:41 pm

azoele wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:37 pm
Ah...
And don't get me started on the unholy mess that is the 5th line.
Whoever invented it, and gave it cables of same color as internal bridles, has much, much to answer for it.
Yes, it will allow lowering the kite "easily" and safely.
But it adds significant time to install and remove (after at least 50 sessions, I still have not got any faster), and it is responsible of the worst tanglings.
Only, I don't feel flying without it to be good for the Peak: yes you can crash it on the ground, but that will not be very good for the kite... and backstalling the 5m in moderate wind is not for the faint of the heart: if released, it will zip through noon faster than you can see it, and pulling like a 17m!!! :D
(I wonder how fast truly the 3 and 4 are!)
Totally newbie here, so take it with a grain of salt. And I have an old 5 line North bar - split y construction is afaik similar to Flysurfer bars.

While I agree with the statement, I think there are ways to mitigate 5th line problems:

1) Bind somehow the two fifth lines together close to the canopy before packing - less bridle tangling when unpacking. I first used a rubber band knot but I think a loose slipknot on the lines is good enough. I thought it would automatically undo itself but at least in light wind that's not always true. I think b-safety is not much affected by the knot, even if it didn't unravel.
2) If the fifth line was pulled I think it pays off to walk to the kite and secure it and then deal with the 5th line before trying to wrap the lines around the bar.
3) Get one bar for each Peak.


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