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Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:31 am
by Flyboy
GregK wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:32 am
+1 for Purdy-Kiter's comments !

Need to add three additional features that improve the light-wind relaunch of Aluula kites :

1. Aluula LE is very stiff, the kite hold its C shape when reverse-launching one side of the kite by pulling that steering line

2. the smaller LE diameter holds less water in the notch between the front of the canopy and the back end of the LE ( note this could also be a down-side as water doesn't have to splash quite as high to get into the notch )

3. Aluula fabric is very hydrophobic, water beads and runs off, reducing surface tension forces as the kite lifts off the water surface

One big advantage with the Aluula kites - I assume - is that they work equally well with a SB as with a foil. This somewhat helps to mitigate the high cost.

Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:24 am
by leeuwen
Yes, my 10m roam also works ok on a twintip but not great for jumping.

Will be interested to see crossover/allround type kites with aluula and how they will stack up vs the roam on the foil.
Might be a near perfect kite for all riding styles.
Can’t wait to see more kite types with aluula.

Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:23 pm
by jumptheshark
Sceotend wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:41 pm
azoele wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:37 pm
Ah...
And don't get me started on the unholy mess that is the 5th line.
Whoever invented it, and gave it cables of same color as internal bridles, has much, much to answer for it.
Yes, it will allow lowering the kite "easily" and safely.
But it adds significant time to install and remove (after at least 50 sessions, I still have not got any faster), and it is responsible of the worst tanglings.
Only, I don't feel flying without it to be good for the Peak: yes you can crash it on the ground, but that will not be very good for the kite... and backstalling the 5m in moderate wind is not for the faint of the heart: if released, it will zip through noon faster than you can see it, and pulling like a 17m!!! :D
(I wonder how fast truly the 3 and 4 are!)
Totally newbie here, so take it with a grain of salt. And I have an old 5 line North bar - split y construction is afaik similar to Flysurfer bars.

While I agree with the statement, I think there are ways to mitigate 5th line problems:

1) Bind somehow the two fifth lines together close to the canopy before packing - less bridle tangling when unpacking. I first used a rubber band knot but I think a loose slipknot on the lines is good enough. I thought it would automatically undo itself but at least in light wind that's not always true. I think b-safety is not much affected by the knot, even if it didn't unravel.
2) If the fifth line was pulled I think it pays off to walk to the kite and secure it and then deal with the 5th line before trying to wrap the lines around the bar.
3) Get one bar for each Peak.
I'll take #3 bob.

Survey says: Ding ding ding. You win!

Taken in context of Flysurfer's ingenious fly line attachment system of loops with small stainless rings providing a universal attachment to any bar without having to alter it. I'm going to suggest that in looking at the B safe line set up with its bridle matching color and line gauge, and the lack of pull release tabs on the loops. Installing the B safe line is evidently meant to be a one time procedure and is not intended for removal with each time you use the kite.

5th lines have ALWAYS been a PITA for unwinding lines and separating them out. By far and away the best option for mitigation is to leave the bar attached full time and just unwind and go. Used this way the potential for tangle is pretty much eliminated.

For hydrofoiling, 4 line single front line safety is the go especially for the 6m and smaller. There is no dropping the kite for a rest on water like there can be on snow and after a season of launching and landing 4 line. The kite fly perfectly (the span line is still on the kite without the B safe installed), have suffered zero wear from launch/land for which they are a dream. Highly recommend leaving bars attached for full convenience.

Will use the 5th line on the 6m as a one kite quiver for snow. Nice feature to back it down and pop it right back up while in deep snow, or still in bindings, but by no means necessary. Where it IS likely necessary is when pulling yourself uphill in mountains and not getting yanked over and down the far side of peaks and ridges. I ride lowland snow, so likely only a handy feature for the odd squall, but as this kite was designed for snow use in the hills, its safe to assume the B safe lines were intended for that use.

From what it sounds line in the Peak4 thread, the majority of foilers rig them 4 line.

Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:07 pm
by PurdyKiter
Flyboy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:31 am

One big advantage with the Aluula kites - I assume - is that they work equally well with a SB as with a foil. This somewhat helps to mitigate the high cost.
Yes, On a recent day in Washington State wind storm conditions I rigged my 8m Aluula Roam. I parked my Celeritas on the beach and went out for an hour of very light wind foiling on a large 633-like wing. A couple times it was so light that I dropped the Roam for an easy relaunch. After that hour the winds arrived and I grabbed to Celeritas for another hour of powered directional swell. Towards the end I was fully powered to overpowered and still loving the performance.

Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:03 pm
by rnelias
Skywalker7 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:08 pm
Shadow Jack wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:42 pm
Hi, bros!
What kite do you think is the best choice for foiling? Obviously, for each style of riding it would be different kites. It would be cool to discuss!

Personaly, I'm looking for kite to ride slow and playful on a big wing (1200), flat water. Learn turns, ride strapless and so on... Think of 3 strut kite, which has to be stable, comfortibe, drift nicely and relaunch easely. First, that comes to my mind, is wave kites, like Cabrinha Drifter. What do you think?

My experience: fast foil kites - for race foils (small wings) and experienced riders. Works fantastic! Last season I used foil kites (flysurfer sonic2&3) on RDB FreeRace foil. When switched to LEI kite, advantages of nice foil wings disappeared (decreased speed and upwind angle, which where incredible with Sonics). Learning turns and tricks on foil kites is much more complicated, than on LEI kites.
If you are already using Sonics you know how to handle and restart a foil kite. I do ride Sonic 3 and Peaks as well but I would suggest you to try the Soul 9m and 7m kites. Soul 9m has more power than a 11m tube kite, still way ligther than any of the tube kites (other than alulla) and does relaunch from 6-7 knots. Soul 9 and 7M is even lower aspect kites than bigger sizes and very fast turning and looping kites. I am 95 kg and can start from 7 knots on Soul 9m on an 1300 surf foil. 9-10 knots is total fun kiting. Just try them.
Peaks are best choice for riding waves as they have an insane drift but they will flap when overpowered just as the single strut or no struts kites. I use Sonic 3 11M for hydrfoil airstyle sessions in 10-16 knots on Moses 590 wing and can jump 5-10m heights easily which is great fun and not requiring too much hydrofoil skill.
I came to this thread expecting to find some opinions about the smaller Soul sizes (7 to 9m) as I'm also looking for a second kite for my hydrofoil's quiver (I already have a Soul 12m). After so many people talking about the Peak4, I confess that now I'm curious to try, but the idea of coming back to the beach swiming, almost every time the kite hits the water, holds me back :lol:

What about the smaller Souls? Souls are easy to relaunch and, in the smaller sizes, are lightweight and have some drift...

Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:24 pm
by Flyboy
rnelias wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:03 pm

I came to this thread expecting to find some opinions about the smaller Soul sizes (7 to 9m) as I'm also looking for a second kite for my hydrofoil's quiver (I already have a Soul 12m). After so many people talking about the Peak4, I confess that now I'm curious to try, but the idea of coming back to the beach swiming, almost every time the kite hits the water, holds me back :lol:

What about the smaller Souls? Souls are easy to relaunch and, in the smaller sizes, are lightweight and have some drift...
I think it depends partly on the type of foiling you are interested in. Peaks excel at "downwind riding", which is to say carving turns in swell or waves using a more surf-oriented foil. They are not so good for speed, going sharply upwind & (especially) jumping.

The water relaunch thing is harder to evaluate. It's not that common to drop a kite in the water while foiling because at the first sign of loss of balance you tend to pull away from the board - you don't try & "muscle it" like you might on a TT or SB. In 20 hours using Peaks I dropped the kite twice in the water: once I looped the kite too hard while waterstarting & the second time I let the kite tip touch the water while riding along. Both times I was able to instantly relaunch the kite. The other situation might be in very light winds, but in that case a Peak is the least likely to fall into the water & any other kite is not that likely to be waterstartable in that situation anyway. Water relaunchability is a concern, but less of one than you might think.

Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:26 pm
by Janus
@rnelias; why not the Soul 6m?
It got the same lowend for me as my Peak4 5m (to be honest it is a tiny bit better)

Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:41 pm
by rnelias
Janus wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:26 pm
@rnelias; why not the Soul 6m?
It got the same lowend for me as my Peak4 5m (to be honest it is a tiny bit better)
in fact, it was a typo and 6m should be included as well (of course)

Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:50 pm
by rnelias
Flyboy wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:24 pm
rnelias wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:03 pm

I came to this thread expecting to find some opinions about the smaller Soul sizes (7 to 9m) as I'm also looking for a second kite for my hydrofoil's quiver (I already have a Soul 12m). After so many people talking about the Peak4, I confess that now I'm curious to try, but the idea of coming back to the beach swiming, almost every time the kite hits the water, holds me back :lol:

What about the smaller Souls? Souls are easy to relaunch and, in the smaller sizes, are lightweight and have some drift...
I think it depends partly on the type of foiling you are interested in. Peaks excel at "downwind riding", which is to say carving turns in swell or waves using a more surf-oriented foil. They are not so good for speed, going sharply upwind & (especially) jumping.

The water relaunch thing is harder to evaluate. It's not that common to drop a kite in the water while foiling because at the first sign of loss of balance you tend to pull away from the board - you don't try & "muscle it" like you might on a TT or SB. In 20 hours using Peaks I dropped the kite twice in the water: once I looped the kite too hard while waterstarting & the second time I let the kite tip touch the water while riding along. Both times I was able to instantly relaunch the kite. The other situation might be in very light winds, but in that case a Peak is the least likely to fall into the water & any other kite is not that likely to be waterstartable in that situation anyway. Water relaunchability is a concern, but less of one than you might think.
I mostly kite on a bay area where the wind is always light (9-12k range close to the beach) and onshore. It also drops all of a sudden when looses alignment with the opening to the ocean, and we don't have waves to surf here, thus, it seems a smaller Soul would better for me.

Re: Best kite for hydrofoil?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:11 pm
by Flyboy
rnelias wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:50 pm
Flyboy wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:24 pm
rnelias wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:03 pm

I came to this thread expecting to find some opinions about the smaller Soul sizes (7 to 9m) as I'm also looking for a second kite for my hydrofoil's quiver (I already have a Soul 12m). After so many people talking about the Peak4, I confess that now I'm curious to try, but the idea of coming back to the beach swiming, almost every time the kite hits the water, holds me back :lol:

What about the smaller Souls? Souls are easy to relaunch and, in the smaller sizes, are lightweight and have some drift...
I think it depends partly on the type of foiling you are interested in. Peaks excel at "downwind riding", which is to say carving turns in swell or waves using a more surf-oriented foil. They are not so good for speed, going sharply upwind & (especially) jumping.

The water relaunch thing is harder to evaluate. It's not that common to drop a kite in the water while foiling because at the first sign of loss of balance you tend to pull away from the board - you don't try & "muscle it" like you might on a TT or SB. In 20 hours using Peaks I dropped the kite twice in the water: once I looped the kite too hard while waterstarting & the second time I let the kite tip touch the water while riding along. Both times I was able to instantly relaunch the kite. The other situation might be in very light winds, but in that case a Peak is the least likely to fall into the water & any other kite is not that likely to be waterstartable in that situation anyway. Water relaunchability is a concern, but less of one than you might think.
I mostly kite on a bay area where the wind is always light (9-12k range close to the beach) and onshore. It also drops all of a sudden when looses alignment with the opening to the ocean, and we don't have waves to surf here, thus, it seems a smaller Soul would better for me.
Well, I assume you would be using the 12m Soul in 9m-12m range, so you're looking for something for stronger wind? I think the point is that the Peaks are more "playful', which also applies in flatter water, but if you're mostly looking to go fast or jump the Soul would unquestionably be a better fit. The Peaks go upwind fine - they're just not upwind cranking machines like some other kites.