Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
User avatar
cglazier
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2530
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:00 am
Gear: Naish, Flysurfer, Alpine, Moses
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby cglazier » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:23 pm

The reason kite designers add struts to kites is so that they maintain their shape under high load. Kites with less struts are more prone to buckling under high loads. Zero strut and one strut kites do not perform well when overpowered.. it's that simple.
;-)
These users thanked the author cglazier for the post:
airsail (Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:51 pm)
Rating: 6.67%

airsail
Frequent Poster
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:57 am
Weight: 80kg
Local Beach: Queens Beach North, Queensland, Australia
Favorite Beaches: Queens North, I don’t travel much
Style: Foiling
Gear: Sonic 3 15mtr, Soul 10 mtr, BRM Clouds 8, 6.2, 4.8, 3.7
Lift, Naish and Levitaz foils
Carbonco and home build boards
Ozone and Duotone wings
Naish Hover 95 foilboard
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby airsail » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:55 pm

Had the same with my 4 mtr Uno, single and no strut kites really don’t like to be used outside their wind range. 25 knots I’d definitely the maximum I would use my current 3.7 in, above that you need a smaller if foiling or fully strutted kite for TT.

oregonkiter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:26 pm
Style: foil
Gear: Foil stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby oregonkiter » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:11 pm

I’m no engineer, but how do struts that run perpendicular to the LE prevent tip to tip buckling? My 5m strutless, granted 5 m > 4 m, has a large LE and does not buckle and I’m a big guy. Every 4 m I’ve owned—all three strut——buckled under high load like water starting on a directional, if I sheeted in to equal line length.

User avatar
jakemoore
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2132
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:59 am
Gear: Foil and 1strut kites.
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Oleander
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 158 times
Contact:

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby jakemoore » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:14 pm

Ghost struck me as a relatively robust one strut e.g. compared to Ozone Uno. It has a pretty thick leading edge and deep arc.

I can't say I've seen anybody take one out in 35 knots on a twin tip.

Herman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 966
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:09 pm
Style: My Own.
Gear: SLE, foils and C kites, TTs, Directionals, Landboards, Buggy.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 91 times
Been thanked: 216 times

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby Herman » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:36 am

oregonkiter wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:11 pm
I’m no engineer, but how do struts that run perpendicular to the LE prevent tip to tip buckling? My 5m strutless, granted 5 m > 4 m, has a large LE and does not buckle and I’m a big guy. Every 4 m I’ve owned—all three strut——buckled under high load like water starting on a directional, if I sheeted in to equal line length.
I am not a kite designer and this is just off the top of my head. To buckle the kite with line tension you have to distort the airframe enough to overcome the stiffness of the LE. With more struts the the airframe is better supported by the extra struts and resultant aerodynamic forces. Just another variable in the equation along with pressure and thickness of LE.........A good question!

simcoloco
Rare Poster
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:19 pm
Kiting since: 2004
Favorite Beaches: Gorge
Style: Freeride swell foiling
Gear: BRM Cloud Kites, Lift Foils
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby simcoloco » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:52 pm

I've had the exact same problem with the Ghost. The 2 times I've tried the 2.5M Ghost, the wingtips fold on water start, and loose all power. Complete turn off.
I've also flown the 3M UFO a few times, and this kite does not have this issue.
The reason the Ghost has the problem, is the wing tips are very small diameter and just cant take the loading. The UFO has larger diameter wingtips, so they don't fold.
I pump my kites rock hard(until they don't inflate anymore), ~15PSI(have 2 gauges on my pump). So with the Ghost at ~15PSI, I fold the wingtips.
The no strut Cloud kites have large diameter wingtips, and I have never folded them either.

trod27
Medium Poster
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:36 pm
Local Beach: Utah
Favorite Beaches: Gorge, Los Barilles, Deer Creek
Style: freestyle
Gear: Slingshot, Moses
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby trod27 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:41 am

I have 4,6,8,10 Ghost. Yes the 4 and 6 will buckle if you send them to hard. I think all small kites will? My SSTs did the same thing.
Now I pump the 4 and 6 hard (real hard). I also am aware when I send kites to send them more horizontally to not overload them and work myself up on foil (not in one stroke).
I also try and not fall much:)
I love my Ghost. I think they are a great foil kite.

User avatar
granit02
Rare Poster
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:28 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Queens beach North Redcliffe Qld Australia
Style: strapless foil and surfboard
Gear: Slingshot SST, GhostV1 and 5'8" Celeritas Slingshot Micro DC
Brand Affiliation: Slingshot Australia
Location: Scarborough
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby granit02 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:08 pm

I have a 4m Ghost that I use for 20+ knot foiling only, probably ridden it in these conditions at least 10 times.
Recently I ran it with a 20 inch bar and noticed the tips buckled under starting loads. I have in the past only run the 17" bar on this kite and have never had it buckle on me.
They say size dosent matter but the extra 3 inches made a big difference.

sure pump it up as hard as possible, but also try a shorter bar.

Grant

User avatar
purdyd
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:00 am
Has thanked: 191 times
Been thanked: 157 times

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby purdyd » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:27 pm

granit02 wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:08 pm
I have a 4m Ghost that I use for 20+ knot foiling only, probably ridden it in these conditions at least 10 times.
Recently I ran it with a 20 inch bar and noticed the tips buckled under starting loads. I have in the past only run the 17" bar on this kite and have never had it buckle on me.
They say size dosent matter but the extra 3 inches made a big difference.

sure pump it up as hard as possible, but also try a shorter bar.

Grant
That is interesting because I’m using a low vee duotone bar with my ghosts and ufos. That would be like having a smaller bar.

I’m just too lazy to change the vee and frankly the ufo and ghost seem to fly fine with it, I actually sort of prefer the feel.

Granted I’ve never flown these kites in 30 knots but you should see how I work them, especially the 3m ufo. I’ve never seen buckling hmmm.

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1252
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: New Brighton- nr Liverpool. Open sea with big low tide lagoon
Favorite Beaches: New Brighton, Rhosneigr, Fleetwood, Newbrough
lake Como (Italy)
Style: improving kite foiler since 2017
Gear: Groove Skates 110 and 120 custom graphics and volume 2021 editions
101cm + 91cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633/483 on a 701 fuse
Moses- 718 /421 on the smaller lighter kite fuse
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr + 9mtr
Ozone Chrono V4 foil kite 11mtr, red
duotone click bar 2020, custom lines
duotone 2021 click bar (waiting for delivery)
ION B3 seat harness, now waiting 7 months for delivery:o
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 246 times

Re: Slingshot ghost 4m buckling under high winds starting loads.

Postby Foil » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:20 am

I would do two things as this bending the kite in the sky can be scary and frustrating in high winds,
first, once the kite is inflated but still attached to the pump forget the ping thing just grab the kite with two hands on the main tube above the inflation point and force the lower part of the main front tube against your leg and try to bend the kite in half, if you can then it will do the same in the sky when you exert the same forces through the bar, so keep pumping!! until the kite will not bend.(still able to bend it gat a better pump, or ask some heavyweight to pump some more air in)

then secondly try not to strangle the kite (pulling too hard on the bar) when power stroking through the window, let the kite flow through deeper and faster, there is a point that feels like you are pulling the kite out of the sky, and its at that point the kite may fold or badly distort dumping any power created, feel for this point as you dive the kite and ease the bar out if you feel it starting to disform, its better to double downloop the kite for enough power or triple downloop the kite with speed developing the power required to get up, not just pulling in on the bar which may not have the desired effect due to kite distortion,
it is a skill you develop over time with practice, and as with all these things once you are dialed in to getting it right then its easy to replicate, even more fast looping, multiple deep loops will create that power when you get good at it.
don't forget to bear away whilst looping that kite for power, then harden back upwind when your arse is clear of the water to prevent the power spilling away to much as you move along gaining speed.
bigger board will help as well
These users thanked the author Foil for the post (total 3):
leeuwen (Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:48 am) • purdyd (Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:05 pm) • airsail (Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:25 pm)
Rating: 20%


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests